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shotapettanko
09-06-2014, 04:28 AM
I'd just like to inquire about what things should be done before one starts powerlevelling his HQ to 40 upwards. I know one of them is submarine farming on 1-5, but apart from that I'm clueless. The resource regen cap is also another thing pushing me to start going up some levels. HQ level 30 at the moment.

Ryuuhou Kagiyama
09-06-2014, 04:42 AM
I don't think you need to worry about restricting HQ Level until you approach 80. Also note that your drops, constructions, and developments changed based on your HQ, so while it's true that you'll start getting harder enemies you'll have an easier time getting higher level gear.

shotapettanko
09-06-2014, 04:50 AM
Alright. What happens at HQ 80 though?

HydraGoliath
09-06-2014, 04:56 AM
Alright. What happens at HQ 80 though?

Maps like 1-5, 2-5 and Event maps become more difficult. There's also a 100-105+ break point for event maps.

M.A.Mitscher
09-06-2014, 05:08 AM
If your'e going to power your way to a higher HQ level, you may want to have a core of ships across the different classes that are roughly close to your HQ level. Something I noticed this recent event and the worlds I'm working on as I've climbed up the HQ Levels.

With the recent event, I started them at roughly HQ Lv 50. By the time I was finished I broke into HQ Lv 71.

Something I noticed as I climbed the levels, and later events was that after a while, I did not have the core of ships needed that were comparable to my HQ level. So my HQ Lv would be 60 something but the ships I was down to were Lv 30 something, 40 if I was lucky. This resulted in many misses as well as taking higher damage. With Remodeling & Modernization, I can get the stats to help out on the armor, firepower, etc., but I could do little to help on my ships missing so much other than leveling. Since I was not a high level Admiral with fancy radar and such all around, accuracy was a major issue, especially on the bosses.

It seems, correct me if I'm wrong, the only thing the game cares about when it comes to throwing enemies at you, is if you've cleared an area and/or your HQ level. It doesn't care what level your ships are. With the regular sortie worlds, you have control over this by using your low level ships in appropriate, early sortie worlds.

But when the special event rolls around, and you're trying stuff like that with your current HQ level with low level ships, you're going to get massacred. You CAN still do it. I did. But it was way more costly than what I've read everyone else doing with their high HQ Level, high leveled ships, tons of endgame gear, Kai / Kai Ni ships all around.

shiro
09-06-2014, 05:51 AM
Pros: Easier enemies of maps with level scaling
Cons: Lower probability of crafting rare equipment and getting rare drops in some maps

You should progress normally and prevent on power leveling your HQ level at all cost unless you're gunning for the ranks.

Burningluv
09-06-2014, 06:01 AM
last event sorta said "nope" to traditional this is hard mode after certain hq level. if elite and flagship only enemies is the defining characteristic of hard mode that happened at HQ 60. Once i reached 60 I never saw a normal class enemy again just mostly elites and flagships. Wish I could have gotten out AL before that happened.

illyrin
09-06-2014, 09:57 AM
I'd just like to inquire about what things should be done before one starts powerlevelling his HQ to 40 upwards. I know one of them is submarine farming on 1-5, but apart from that I'm clueless. The resource regen cap is also another thing pushing me to start going up some levels. HQ level 30 at the moment.

Actually, submarine farming in 1-5 becomes more productive after 40 since you can start getting submarines other than I-168 and I-58. The main thing you'll lose out of beyond HQ level 40 is the easy-mode leveling for DDs and CLs that is possible in 1-5. This is something of a pain because there's no real replacement for it later on; for larger vessels you can do 3-2-1 (or 3-2-A) which is very nice and yields better XP, but CLs and DDs use 4-3, which isn't as easy or cheap as doing 1-5.

That said, clearing maps, leveling your ships, and so on is essentially life in KanColle. It's okay to rush past level 40, just don't do it by clearing 1-5 boss constantly. There's more to look forward to at higher level than you lose by the loss of easy CL / DD leveling in 1-5. For one thing, equipment development becomes very important but at higher level, items that you'll be using for the rest of the time you play (Saiun, Reppuu, or 46cms) will start to drop. In fact, these really only reliably start to drop after level 40 or so.

Saki
09-06-2014, 10:03 AM
The advantage was easier on certain maps and events...well, maybe except AL ops last summer event~

nwrtz
09-06-2014, 10:27 AM
shotapettanko

The reasons to not boost your HQ level unnecessarily were more or less covered but what's missing is how this happens. Almost all your HQ experience, especially later on, comes from boss nodes. Normal nodes, PvP exercises and expeditions yield almost nothing compared to them so the biggest problem is for example spamming 1-5 to farm subs at the boss node which can result in a very inflated HQ level (also at lvl80 the maps gets more annoying because the sub on the first node will have the capability to do opening torpedo's while being in line ahead which can hurt). The range from lvl40-80 is very safe though in terms of scaling for the current extra operations, events are a different matter but the next one will be in roughly 3 months from now so enough time to get ready.

There are a lot of ways not involving fighting a boss node to level your fleet which are explained in this guide (http://kancolle.himeuta.net/forums/f6-kancolle-guides/754-guide-sortie-farming-powerlevelling.html). Also since you were talking about the regen cap, generally speaking if you're not stockpiling for an event it is better to always stay under it so your net gain of resources is higher and you have more to spend on sorties, development and construction and therefor your fleet will get stronger.

Zoamelgustar
09-06-2014, 10:41 AM
I guess I probably started to play the wrong way from the beginning. I passed HQ lvl 40 after the first week (which made it impossible for me to survive the first battle node on Al E-2 map), now I am HQ lvl 59, probably 60 after today, while my 10 highest ships are between lvl 30 and 40 and the rest between 15 and 30.

Anomalyzer
09-06-2014, 10:49 AM
What matters is ships level, not the HQ, so no need to grind your HQ level.
You don't really have to worry about resource regen factor, unless you always depleting resources. But then again, expedition is much better than relying on daily regen.

shotapettanko
09-06-2014, 11:00 AM
Alright. So event's get harder by 40?

Argho
09-06-2014, 12:58 PM
shotapettanko I'm not playing for that long either but I can tell you about my experience with E1-2 from the last event. High HQ players were claiming that E1 was one of the hardest event maps while for me it was a breeze. On the other hand E2 was supposed to be a walk in a park but for me it was a nightmare. Also, it was much easier taking north route, while people on higher levels preferred to take the south one. So when it comes to events, it's probably more about how they are designed than your HQ level.

Glasses
09-06-2014, 01:23 PM
you should focus on grinding your ships without raising your HQ lvl. so any node that gives lots of HQ ex is a big no like 1-5 boss or 2-5 boss

Zoamelgustar
09-06-2014, 03:15 PM
I wish I could just level my ships and keep my HQ lvl down, but it rises higher and higher every day, while it take ages to level my ships. I'm grinding the first 3 nodes on 1-5 most of the time for the last 2 weeks, since it's the only map that gives at least a bit more exp while my ships don't get damaged too often. PvP for leveling doesn't really work that well for me. Of the 5 opponent fleets, at least 4 are loaded with 5-6 lvl 60-100+ ships and i just get D-ranks, often without even hitting the enemy.

shiro
09-06-2014, 03:32 PM
Zoamelgustar Which is quite impossible right? Unless you really want to limit yourself of what you can only do in the game which IMO is synonymous to not playing at all.

If I keep on minding my HQ level and it already interferes with what I want to do then it's time to ditch the idea and just go with it. Under-leveled? Keep on grinding those ships and it will eventually meet your requirements. Just don't actively grind to get higher HQ levels. Note that you can actually compensate lower ship levels with better equipment which you got better chances of acquiring in higher HQ levels.

Nozomi
09-06-2014, 03:40 PM
I wish I could just level my ships and keep my HQ lvl down, but it rises higher and higher every day, while it take ages to level my ships. I'm grinding the first 3 nodes on 1-5 most of the time for the last 2 weeks, since it's the only map that gives at least a bit more exp while my ships don't get damaged too often. PvP for leveling doesn't really work that well for me. Of the 5 opponent fleets, at least 4 are loaded with 5-6 lvl 60-100+ ships and i just get D-ranks, often without even hitting the enemy.

As long as the first two ships have a high level you don't need to win... you'll get a lot of xp that way too, even with a D-Rank.
S-Rank would just mean a higher multiplier for the xp.

And don't level too many ships.. stick to a core fleet with a couple DD, CL, CA, two or three BB and CV(L)s. That way you don't spread the xp your ships get too much.

Zoamelgustar
09-06-2014, 04:10 PM
Nozomi My core fleet usually spends the day in the repair docks after my daily attempt to clear map 2-4. ;)

Argho
09-06-2014, 04:14 PM
Zoamelgustar High level ships are just harder to hit but enemies in PvP are nerfed so you can beat pretty much any opponent as long as you have couple of BBs on reasonable level compared to your HQ level. Of course RNG can screw you over and make loose against light fleet but generally PvP is the best place to level up BB/CA. For DD/CL you have first 3 nodes in 1-5.

Maniwani
09-06-2014, 04:59 PM
There really aren't that many benefits to having a low HQ level. Yes, you can farm 1-5 easily, but it's not like your DDs and CLs need to be super high level to be useful; they'll wreck at night regardless as long as they're fully modernized. You won't be under HQ level 40 if you're grinding something like Sendai to 60 in 1-5 anyway.

Having a low HQ level also means you're probably limiting yourself map-wise, which affects your fleet composition and modernization capabilities. There's a very limited drop pool in the early maps so most of your fleet will be comprised of ships with mediocre stat caps, and modernization fodder will probably be limited to torpedo and armor until you unlock 3-2 (you will be 40 or close to 40 by the time you unlock this, and you will definitely be 40+ while grinding it).

As far as events go, as long as you can keep your ship levels up to par, there's no reason to be in a super low tier. Unless you are buying resources with real cash or are extremely lucky with construction/drops, chances are, you will have a very limited fleet at low levels and will not be able to clear the entire event.

Zoamelgustar
09-06-2014, 05:11 PM
Maniwani Well, I'm HQ lvl 60 now and couldn't even unlock world 3 yet, so I'm limited to the lower maps anyway.

Kalinsre
09-06-2014, 05:42 PM
Some already mentioned this before, but I'd just like to reiterate the importance of good equipments. A lot of the events simply come down to whether you have the right equipments. And if your HQ level is low you simply have no access to them.

AkiyamaMio
09-06-2014, 10:11 PM
There's no need to deliberately avoid higher HQ level. There's always pros and cons. I think there are others, but these are probably the most important:

Pros:
* You get better drops from Extra Operations and Events.
* You can craft better equipments.

Cons:
* Extra Operation and Event maps get harder.

Based on the last event, it seems that you need to consider all three. Yes, E-1 was quite a nightmare for HQ +100 with the submarine in the line-ahead formation in E-1-1 and so on, but it is not to say that the lower HQ meant easier game altogether. A lot of low level players had to face steep curve from E-2 due to the insufficient LoS, and the lowest tier of E-3 (HQ below 69) had Aircraft Carrier Oni and Armored Carrier Oni at the same time, making it extremely hard to secure air superiority without sufficient number of good fighter planes. (The highest HQ tier did face a stronger enemy AA, but they were expected to have good enough fighter planes that most players above HQ 100 considered E-3 to be the easiest.) There were a few video uploaders in Nicovideo in the lower difficulty tiers who couldn't clear E-5 at all, due to the insufficient equipment. So... yeah, as long as you keep your ships at a decent enough level, there's no real need to fear the HQ level scaling.

That said, don't spam 1-5 for submarines and stick to the first 3 nodes if you want to grind your DDs and CLs. After spamming it for 74 times for Iku, my HQ level was barely under 80 while my highest level ship was Isuzu at 60 with the BB and CVs under 50. NOT a pretty sight. It was the stupidest thing I've ever done in the game, and once you reach +80 range, Iku starts dropping very, very often.

The antidotes for overleveled HQ (what is "overleveled" depends on what you perceive as such) is mindless grinding without reaching the boss node, be it 3-2-1 or 2-4-1 depending on where you are in the game.

shotapettanko
09-07-2014, 01:23 AM
Thanks everyone.

Just to put it into perspective, I'm HQ Level 33 right now at 3-2. So safe to say I'm not UNDERLEVELLED HQ-wise then?

Aelie
09-07-2014, 01:59 AM
shotapettanko When judging the map's difficulty, it's the level of your ships that's being put on the spot. You mention that you are currently on 3-2. I was having some serious issues on that map when I started it. Then the spring event came up and I powerleveled up my DD's farming one of the event maps. When I came back to it, I cleared it in two tries. Yes, my HQ level did go up, but no, I hadn't crafted anything for the DD's except for the sonars and depth charges.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about raising the HQ level. I personally go out of my way to avoid my HQ level going up - I even skip those daily and weekly quests that require me to clear boss nodes. But my HQ level still went up with progression and exp grinds only. Slower than the other teitokus, for sure - but you will have a larger, higher leveled fleet than them, so who's worse off?

Kyrie
09-07-2014, 02:21 AM
Zoamelgustar Aelie

My HQ level is currently 99 and I have only 2 ships over level 90 while I'm gunning 5-4 at least 5-8 times a day for ranks, but do I think I am worse off? Not at all. While it is notable that my HQ level seems to be largely inflated in comparison to my kanmusu levels, do note that I have 30 ships over level 60 having kai-ni'd most of them I was able to clear the summer event maps up until E-5 with ease mainly because of I didn't have to worry about leveling any ships during the event at all as I had them ready and modernized while having the best craftable gear available to me.
Truth be told people make this "low level" ships in comparison to your HQ level situation -much worse- than it really is. Just the play the game how you like it and don't worry too much. I have been spamming 1-5 for subs until I was told I-8 doesn't drop from 1-5 until you reach level 80. As a result of that my HQ level has been inflated too but honestly it wasn't really a problem because I just kept playing and eventually my ships would get to a sufficient level to keep clearing every map but 5-5 so far.

rtys8
09-07-2014, 04:46 AM
So overall,assuming both cases are accordingly leveled in their fleets,is a high end HQ Teitoku stronger than one with a lower HQ in events?

Pururumpai
09-07-2014, 04:55 AM
So that explain why I never get any SS even though I've grind 1-5 for quite some times

Zoamelgustar
09-07-2014, 07:48 AM
I just hope I will be able to reach world 3 before I hit HQ lvl 99. Though it doesn't look too good for now. ;P

Argho
09-07-2014, 08:26 AM
Zoamelgustar I got massacred during regular sortie for the first time on 2-4 boss node. You might want to spend some time rising BB/CV in PvP, making better planes and getting at least radars from poor Isuzu. Low level HQ safe zone is nice but it won't prevent some enemies from completely destroying your fleet. It's hard to make decent equipment in that HQ range.

M.A.Mitscher
09-07-2014, 07:21 PM
I just hope I will be able to reach world 3 before I hit HQ lvl 99. Though it doesn't look too good for now. ;P

You should be able to, as long as your goal is to get to World 3.

I just broke into HQ Lv 80 and I'm at World 5-3. And before this, I spent a lot of time with the recent Summer Event as well as leveling ships during the event and not focused at all on clearing the regular worlds.

So you can definitely get to and clear World 3 long before HQ Lv 99.

Personally, I'm at a dead-end until I level up my appropriate ships for 5-3. Since I just broke into Lv 80, the difficulty ramped up. When I was at Lv 79, my average mid-Lv40 ships were doing fine as I was working on them in 4-3. But with HQ Lv 80, it got way more difficult.

- - - Updated - - -

Do not worry about getting subs. They will come in time. It took me forever to get I-58 and even longer for I-168. Then there was a long period as I was leveling and clearing worlds (as well as the Summer Event) that I didn't get any Subs. Eventually I got I-8 and I-19, as well as spare I-58 & I-168 again. The subs will come to you, eventually.

Zoamelgustar
09-07-2014, 07:35 PM
M.A.Mitscher Well at the moment this is as far as I get:

http://i.imgur.com/X5ZZEOr.jpg

This was one of the few times where I could at least damage the flagship to yellow and only had 2 ships on my own in the red, though in the end the result was still just a D-rank and 6 buckets + ressources down the drain. :haruna_sad:

M.A.Mitscher
09-07-2014, 08:07 PM
@Zoamelgustar (http://kancolle.himeuta.net/forums/members/zoamelgustar/) @Aelie (http://kancolle.himeuta.net/forums/members/aelie/)

My HQ level is currently 99 and I have only 2 ships over level 90 while I'm gunning 5-4 at least 5-8 times a day for ranks, but do I think I am worse off? Not at all. While it is notable that my HQ level seems to be largely inflated in comparison to my kanmusu levels, do note that I have 30 ships over level 60 having kai-ni'd most of them I was able to clear the summer event maps up until E-5 with ease mainly because of I didn't have to worry about leveling any ships during the event at all as I had them ready and modernized while having the best craftable gear available to me.
Truth be told people make this "low level" ships in comparison to your HQ level situation -much worse- than it really is. Just the play the game how you like it and don't worry too much. I have been spamming 1-5 for subs until I was told I-8 doesn't drop from 1-5 until you reach level 80. As a result of that my HQ level has been inflated too but honestly it wasn't really a problem because I just kept playing and eventually my ships would get to a sufficient level to keep clearing every map but 5-5 so far.

The disparity in HQ Level and low level ships do make a factor. When your ships miss all the time and are mercilessly hit & critted in return, you have work to do. Remodel & Modernization helps, but there's a point where even that doesn't help. The Summer Event just reinforced that.

There's also what I felt were "brackets" in difficulty and what kind of stuff the game throws at you to fight. In the event, I noticed a steep jump in the quality of NPCs I was facing when I hit HQ Lv 60, despite using the same ships for the event and just slugging it through in trying to clear an event map like E2. My ships went from performing decently but with HQ Lv 60, it got way tougher. No choice but to slug it through.

Another threshold I feel I have crossed is now HQ Lv 80. While leveling up ships to prepare for World 5-3, I was working on them in different places, one of which was 4-3 for the sub nodes. While in HQ Lv 70s, and my ships in Lv 40, a few high 30 average, they were doing fine. Now with HQ Lv 80, that's a different story.

I have ships in the 50s, but those are generally BBs and full fledged CVs, which advanced further than my lighter stuff. I feel those would perform better, but I needed to work on the DDs and CLs for 5-3. But since I crossed the HQ Lv 80 threshold, I have more work to do.

- - - Updated - - -
Zoamelgustar
Not sure what map you're working on or if the composition is right for the map. Provided it's a good fleet composition on the map, the most immediate thing you can do to help your ships is at least Kai status and Modernization as much as you possibly can. Everyone needs Armor. Your BBs need that Firepower from Remodeling & Modernization. It looks like you need to reinforce them since it looks like a total slugging match you're going into there. Realize that boosts you put in from Modernization are lost when you Remodel, so if you expect to hit Kai / Kai Ni status soon on a ship, I'd hold off on Modernization until after the Remodel.

You're also above HQ Lv 40. You should be able to have a better chance on higher end equipment from Development now. The KC wiki on development makes note that HQ Lv 40 is a threshold for starting to get fancier gear. You need to look into that too. Your BBs need big guns. 41cm or if you're lucky, 46cm main cannons are what you need. If you haven't try your hand sometime on development for radar, esp Surface Radars with their nice accuracy boosts. There's also the Bauxite heavy development for aircraft, you can also try to get higher end ones to wring more performance, especially for that initial airstrike.

If you have not done so, take a look at the Guides section on this forum for Loadouts and another one for Clearing Maps. Proper setups will go a long way. Advice I got from players for the Summer Event was greatly aided me, and for me, it was mostly proper loadouts and fleet composition. Give your BBs Artillery Spotting and setup for Double Attacks, Remodel & Modernize them. The Levels will come as you try to clear the map or if you focus leveling on a ship or two elsewhere.

Kyrie
09-07-2014, 08:40 PM
@M.A.Mitscher (http://kancolle.himeuta.net/forums/members/m-a-mitscher/)
Remodeling and Modernisation always helps and there is no such a point where it wouldn't either. Also this seems pretty pointless to say but a certain level is always required for a remodel hence you can't really say that levels are superior to remodels since both are connected and amount to the same thing. What I was trying to point out as you already said yourself but I worded it pretty poorly, was that levels will come anyway as you continue playing.

Also your ship to HQ lvl disparity is exceptional for your DD and CLs, so I can see why you would have troubles right now. But what's new from my understanding is that there should be no new threshhold in difficulty at level 60 concerning the maps. The diffulties are usually within 1-40/41-80/81-100 or 105 and from 100 or 105-120.

I advice you to take your time with 5-3 and don't attempt the map at all until you can come back with level 65+ Kai-Ni'd Destroyers/CL/CLTs. I personally cleared the 5-3 map in 7 tries which is way below average with having a level 75+ fleet at level 98 after the summer event. The event sub node was very helpful to level all my DDs simultanously sadly you don't have access to that and have to do it the "hard" way.

Zoamelgustar
09-07-2014, 08:51 PM
M.A.Mitscher the screenshot was taken after my daily futile attempt to clear map 2-4. My battleships are all Kai'ed and have maxed stats except for AA. Well maybe I should stop going on sorties for 2-3 days to stack up ressources for equip development. At the moment most of my ressources are wasted on resupplying and repairs.

Kyrie
09-07-2014, 08:57 PM
Zoamelgustar
If you have subs already I would subcheese this map just to get access to map 3-2 asap.

M.A.Mitscher
09-07-2014, 09:17 PM
Kyrie Not rushing 5-3 at all. I read that it was very dependent on the lighter ships.

During the Summer Event, my light ships were the backbone of my fleet and the one thing that consistently performed, esp. with E3. But since then as I was working on other things, opening up the Sortie Worlds, my light ship levels had fallen behind the CA/BB/CV/CVLs. Now it's a simple task of getting them up to spec. I have the DDs and some CLs already ideal for the work in place. All being Kai at least. But I need to get levels and need to get ships like Shigure to Kai Ni, and get some nightfighting gear from Sendai.

I know what I need to do, it's not I need to put the work in, and pray RNG doesn't rape me too hard as I do so.

- - - Updated - - -
Zoamelgustar Aside from Kyrie's suggestion to try using subs if you have them, how have your Akagi, Ise, and Haruna performed consistently? If your screenshot is typical, your low Lv 30 something ships are behind. I've ran into situations that a few levels make a difference. Backtrack to an earlier map if you have to to bring them up to par with your Lv40 something ships.

Also, the routes can be a bitch on that map. If you go Node B, forget it, you have to fight too many battles and will run out of fuel & ammo.

I also want to reiterate proper loadouts and giving development a try if you got the resources, all while leveling those Lv 30 ships.

Zoamelgustar
09-08-2014, 10:25 AM
Kyrie
I tried several times, but my two subs (3 if I bring Maruyu along) never made it even close to the boss node yet.
M.A.Mitscher
Well, that was one of my better rounds. Haruna and Hyuuga often get their fair share of crits too. Akagi as flagship was the only one that never been in the red yet.
Haven't done much equip development lately, mostly because of lacking resources.

M.A.Mitscher
09-08-2014, 04:40 PM
Zoamelgustar Do you sparkle your fleet before making a run? That helps evasion and accuracy also.

nwrtz
09-08-2014, 05:15 PM
Kyrie M.A.Mitscher Zoamelgustar

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