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Blizzie
01-25-2015, 05:25 AM
Deleted

Blizzie
01-25-2015, 05:27 AM
Reserved

Miracle
01-25-2015, 10:10 AM
Thanks! Will be using this as a reference after the event next month!

SlashZero
01-25-2015, 10:32 AM
421 air power (http://i.imgur.com/vemvCJG.png) seems sufficient for pre-final form. I was able to get AS at the boss even with Wo Kai 2nd node.
As for support fleet loadouts, you should take a look at this data (http://i.imgur.com/I9uU38l.png)

Blizzie
01-25-2015, 06:18 PM
Thanks! Will be using this as a reference after the event next month!

I hope it helps!


421 air power (http://i.imgur.com/vemvCJG.png) seems sufficient for pre-final form. I was able to get AS at the boss even with Wo Kai 2nd node.
As for support fleet loadouts, you should take a look at this data (http://i.imgur.com/I9uU38l.png)

421 is about where fighter power should be pre final form. There are some small optimizations such as swapping in Skilled fighters but I don't account for it here because it varies depending the carriers and their slots. The player should look into it though since my example fleet is just an example to give a general idea of a fleet.

Maybe some time in the future I can perform enough tests to zone in the exact number with different configurations but 5-5 is really expensive in resources and buckets. I'd rather map out the southern drum route right now.

The chart shows that 2x 46cm and 2x 41cm have approximately the same accuracy. It leaves out the proto 41cm though.

HydraGoliath
01-25-2015, 06:29 PM
SlashZero

The difference between the 2x46cm setup and the 2x41cm setup were never significant, the only difference was when you added a third gun. These setups are fine especially when you add in a second surface radar.

chuwenhsuan
01-26-2015, 01:49 AM
I beg to differ.

Since people scream for the lack of data, see >>291 (low samples) (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#291), >>345 (low samples) (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#345),>>410 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#410), >>612 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#612), >>771 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#771), >>906 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#906), and >>8 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1413040072/#8).

First thing to note is that most of these tests, barring >>291 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#291) is done in the state of red fatigue (red face). After some tests, people realized that there was a cap that was applied after all the penalties and bonuses, which was why the penalty for Hiei in >>291 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#291) for two 46cm cannons were seemingly non-existent.

Combining all these spading data, it should be safe to assume that the penalty is linear for every "over-sized" cannon equipped, and that each 46cm cannon gives a -3%~-4% accuracy penalty, so two 46cm cannons should contribute to about -6%~-8% penalty. Of course, you can sparkle (roughly +5% according to >>291 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#291)) or use radars to offset the penalty, but keep in mind that the enemies in 5-5 already has higher evasion, so every bit of accuracy helps, unless, of course, you have a married fleet at absurd levels.

Blizzie
01-26-2015, 02:14 AM
I beg to differ.

Since people scream for the lack of data, see >>291 (low samples) (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#291), >>345 (low samples) (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#345),>>410 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#410), >>612 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#612), >>771 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#771), >>906 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#906), and >>8 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1413040072/#8).

First thing to note is that most of these tests, barring >>291 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#291) is done in the state of red fatigue (red face). After some tests, people realized that there was a cap that was applied after all the penalties and bonuses, which was why the penalty for Hiei in >>291 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#291) for two 46cm cannons were seemingly non-existent.

Combining all these spading data, it should be safe to assume that the penalty is linear for every "over-sized" cannon equipped, and that each 46cm cannon gives a -3%~-4% accuracy penalty, so two 46cm cannons should contribute to about -6%~-8% penalty. Of course, you can sparkle (roughly +5% according to >>291 (http://jbbs.shitaraba.net/bbs/read_archive.cgi/netgame/12394/1408701590/#291)) or use radars to offset the penalty, but keep in mind that the enemies in 5-5 already has higher evasion, so every bit of accuracy helps, unless, of course, you have a married fleet at absurd levels.

The accuracy drop isn't really an issue. First, your BBs will be high leveled for better accuracy. Second, if a double attack or cut-in triggers, chances are they will hit and sink or do crippling damage. If the small loss of accuracy is a concern, 41cms (or prototype) can be used instead of 46cm, but there's really no reason to. If I have to retreat from a 5-5 battle, I won't be blaming it on the ~6-8% accuracy loss.

Saya
01-26-2015, 02:19 AM
Extremely in-depth, and impressive accumulation of information. +1.

MagnAvaloN
01-26-2015, 08:46 AM
A really well-made guide, nice work.

ofi123
01-26-2015, 09:22 AM
Nice guide. Though I'd prefer to swap out AP shells for Yamato class for either radar (higher DA chance) or sanshiki/AA gun (to shoot down more elite Re's planes, her torpedo planes can red Yamato class) since they have enough FP for most part, anything still floating will be dealt with in NB. There's also the part where AP cut in does scratch at times.

Also, to many this is a bad idea but I bring a saiun. This makes reaching the boss harder, but a red T can effectively cost you not to kill the flagship. Torpedo planes with 12 or less count easily ends up 0 by the boss node, so it's better to use a calculator to see how much AS you can spare and move the torpedo planes around. I know for sure you have the luxury of this in the pre-last kill, unless you use carriers of lower plane slots/distribution.

HydraGoliath
01-26-2015, 09:34 AM
ofi123

I can't say I've ever had a problem killing Wo Kai in T Red. Yamato/Musashi's AP CIs generally take care of her regardless of the engagement.

Pudding
01-26-2015, 09:35 AM
nice guide!

for me... i have used the slow BB method and sub method... i think sub method is kinda better since this map is a rush of resources... i find like.. you might not have to support fleet anything for none sub route... but if you are going by sub route... you have to support fleet at least on the way coz node 2 is a bitch to the subs and they hit hard on the subs...

another thing is... i think it would be better to flag goya or something? to increase the chance of cut in... but then thats preference...

ofi123
01-26-2015, 09:46 AM
HydraGoliath

I have pretty much bad luck in killing wo kai since I started to clear 5-5. Never once I managed to kill her in the day. Will try next month with the modified APs to see if there's a difference.
It's just the randomness of AP CI damage left very bad impression on me, as well as I like my Yamatos downing the elite Re's planes due to Musashi being rekted >50% of the time whenever pre-boss elite Re's planes torpedo her if she's not armed with an AA gun.

kuavera
01-26-2015, 10:31 AM
Good job. I hope after reading this guide people realize this map is far from impossible and decide to give it a shot.

Blizzie
01-27-2015, 06:12 AM
Nice guide. Though I'd prefer to swap out AP shells for Yamato class for either radar (higher DA chance) or sanshiki/AA gun (to shoot down more elite Re's planes, her torpedo planes can red Yamato class) since they have enough FP for most part, anything still floating will be dealt with in NB. There's also the part where AP cut in does scratch at times.

Also, to many this is a bad idea but I bring a saiun. This makes reaching the boss harder, but a red T can effectively cost you not to kill the flagship. Torpedo planes with 12 or less count easily ends up 0 by the boss node, so it's better to use a calculator to see how much AS you can spare and move the torpedo planes around. I know for sure you have the luxury of this in the pre-last kill, unless you use carriers of lower plane slots/distribution.

It seems you know what works for you and have your own preferences which is great. I personally don't have issues with the boss node even with red T-cross. It's getting to the boss that's challenging for many.


nice guide!

for me... i have used the slow BB method and sub method... i think sub method is kinda better since this map is a rush of resources... i find like.. you might not have to support fleet anything for none sub route... but if you are going by sub route... you have to support fleet at least on the way coz node 2 is a bitch to the subs and they hit hard on the subs...

another thing is... i think it would be better to flag goya or something? to increase the chance of cut in... but then thats preference...

Support fleet still helps a great deal for the BB/CV route. The more sunken fodder ships before shelling, the better.

It's preference whether or not you want Goya as flag or last in slot. There's a trade off for both. If Goya is flag she has a higher cut-in chance but there are more targets for her to hit. If she's last, she has lower cut-in chance but there will be less targets. Generally, most people like to use her as a last resort finisher. The reasoning is, having a higher cut-in chance is useless if the torpedo does not hit the flagship anyway.


Good job. I hope after reading this guide people realize this map is far from impossible and decide to give it a shot.

It's definitely challenging but by no means impossible. I feel many get a misconception of what 5-5 is from others before they even attempt it themselves.

ofi123
01-27-2015, 06:20 AM
kuavera Blizzie

Many would cry tears of blood in their initial tries. I remember my first attempts were after Summer 14 event. >20k fuel used with only 1 kill using the 3 sub method. Until they get their ships to high levels for the evasion their ships are heavily under the mercy of RNG's trolling, particularly elite Re-chan's attacks.

It's doable, but can be as difficult as EO maps of events.

ofi123
02-04-2015, 04:10 AM
Came back to say AP shell works. Only in 2 instance the day cut in did crap (like 1 damage against a DD), the rest did pretty well.

Other than the carriers' planes setup the rest are pretty solid.

Glasses
02-04-2015, 12:06 PM
I run 361 AS on first 4 kills and 412 AS on final we no problem.

Blizzie
02-04-2015, 03:56 PM
Came back to say AP shell works. Only in 2 instance the day cut in did crap (like 1 damage against a DD), the rest did pretty well.

Other than the carriers' planes setup the rest are pretty solid.

Glad it worked for you.


I run 361 AS on first 4 kills and 412 AS on final we no problem.

Lower AS does work, but it doesn't mean it works 100% of the time if you encounter worst case scenario.

Unregistered
03-03-2015, 06:29 PM
420 fighter power is enough. Any more is overkill and won't help in any way. You can afford to lose up to 43 fighter power along the way, and I've never lost more than half of that. I've seen the plane loss table but in practice whenever you lose more fighter planes in one slot it's made up for by losing less in another. However, there's also no point in using a weaker fighter plane; you're better off putting in an extra attack plane instead.

I'll admit that Saiun makes it harder to reach the boss, but I still wouldn't recommend dropping it (at least for final kill) unless you're running both hotels.

Adding on, I wouldn't really recommend using AP shells here. AP shells are more effective only if the target's armour is beyond a certain point (around 136 armour), and none of the enemies you'll encounter in 5-5 are at that point yet. I used type 32 radars + saiun (3 fast BB 3 CV) all the way, and encountered no problems sinking the enemies. I know AP shells also give some firepower (it helps a bit in night battle) but they don't give nearly as much accuracy as radars, so if you want to avoid overload you'll have to use weaker guns. However, overload can also be countered by accuracy from radars, so I can freely give my fast BBs 46cm guns. To each his own, I guess.

Regarding support fleets, if you want accuracy you could consider 2x 46cm + 2x T32 radar for BBs too. And since carriers don't suffer from overload I find that one radar on them is usually enough.

Finally, line ahead for everything is best.

Saro2775
03-07-2015, 03:06 PM
I have a question - why did you put the Reppuu 601 Air Group on Akagi's 32 slot and not on Kaga's 46?

kuavera
03-07-2015, 03:08 PM
Saro2775 Kaga's 46 slot is used for a better plane: Reppu Kai, +12AA, Spring 2014 E-1 reward.

Saro2775
03-07-2015, 03:59 PM
@Saro2775 (http://www.himeuta.net/members/678-saro2775/) Kaga's 46 slot is used for a better plane: Reppu Kai, +12AA, Spring 2014 E-1 reward.

Ah, I see, ty :)

Shuichi
03-18-2015, 04:58 AM
Thanks a bunch for this guide, it helped a ton.

SlashZero
03-18-2015, 03:06 PM
This month I tried out using the 3-submarine route with Nagato (Level 131, 40 luck) as my flagship. I equipped her with: 51cm prototype, 41cm prototype, 41cm prototype, searchlight.

VoD: http://www.hitbox.tv/video/450531

This has a couple advantages over using Bismarck with double attack:
-Over-cap attack power in day battle for increased damage output in parallel/head-on engagement vs Re/Wo at nodes 1, 3 and 4, which overall gives a better shot at sinking stuff during the day.
-Better accuracy than Bismarck with two 46cms equipped. I think this is pretty big given the consequences for missing on pretty much any node.
-Higher AA (for what it's worth).
-A little lower repair costs

The disadvantages are:
-Only about 75% cut-in chance at the boss node night battle.
-6 less armor than Bismarck with 1 bulge equipped
-Slightly lower evasion
-One less HP

I was fairly lucky and got the cut-in 5 of 5 times (9 runs total). I didn't really have any problems with Nagato's durability, and the increased day battle damage over Bismarck was noticeable.

Overall I think it's a viable setup, but I don't know if I can rate it more highly than Bismarck Drei.

SlashZero
05-22-2015, 02:32 PM
6 fast battleships is legit!

VoD: Twitch (http://www.twitch.tv/jenxiii/c/6724849)

Equipment loadouts are 2 main guns plus either 2 torpedo bulges, or 1 bulge 1 AP ammo on the flagship.

Positioning isn't too important except Bismarck Drei should be third because she is the strongest at night battle, so you want her to attack right before Re/Princess at the boss night battle.

Kuren
06-08-2015, 12:46 AM
So I've tried 5-5 for the first time. Deadend on the first try, retreat by preboss on 2nd try, third try reached the boss but Red T occurred and I failed to sink the boss.

Just saying something, unless you are able to run both Yamato-class / Bismarck (which not everyone are able to), Saiun is important to increase success chance at killing the boss. IMO they do not make reaching the boss that much easier because green T can still occur and Head-On engagement is not that much dangerous compared to Red T which rarely occur when you want it to.

Blizzie
06-08-2015, 03:04 AM
So I've tried 5-5 for the first time. Deadend on the first try, retreat by preboss on 2nd try, third try reached the boss but Red T occurred and I failed to sink the boss.

Just saying something, unless you are able to run both Yamato-class / Bismarck (which not everyone are able to), Saiun is important to increase success chance at killing the boss. IMO they do not make reaching the boss that much easier because green T can still occur and Head-On engagement is not that much dangerous compared to Red T which rarely occur when you want it to.

If you find Saiun will help you secure the win, then go ahead and use it. :) In my opinion most people will opt to not bring it since it takes up a slot which can be important depending on your equipment.

Not all runs reaching the boss will end with a victory. A red T-disadvantage only occurs 10% of the time.


----------

On another note I tried running the drum route again going the south-most route with Fast BB, CAV, CAV, CAV, CAV, and CV. 5 drums required and each CAV has to have at least 1 drum. It went... terribly.


If I have time I'll explore the other compositions brought up by people here and bring the guide up to speed in general.

Kuren
06-08-2015, 03:17 AM
Blizzie

Haha..I knew it was just bad luck because the boss was left with 3 HP at night and I don't have any LSC hotels (which means sub route is out of the option as well) to use and only 1 Reppuu 601 but I am able to spare a Saiun for the extra air power before final form. Just wanna try and prove it is possible to clear it without hotels and any married ships.

Also, as for the deadend node L, I've seen people mentioning chances of dead end are higher when you managed to pass the third node with little to no damaged ships, I shall try taking records of my runs to see if it is somewhat true.

wafuu
06-08-2015, 03:32 AM
Kuren just managed to clear it once without hotels or ringed ships myself, but I guess I got lucky with a green T. Didn't use saiun because of lack of reppus and didn't want to give up CV shelling, but I'd rather use another attack plane if I could spare the slot. If you really want to secure the kill, I believe boss support would be an option - if you have the resources to spare.

http://i.imgur.com/JB03GNq.jpg

Kuren
06-08-2015, 03:45 AM
wafuu

I was using both support expeditions (though red T at boss ruined everything) because I want to avoid a situation where I would have sunk the boss if I don't get stingy to save some petty resources. I will have to swap out the Saiun for the final form though, if I can make it that far. I guess good luck to both of us then~ ^^

Zylphe
06-08-2015, 05:13 AM
3FBB3CV has been fairly effective for me after the introduction of the Italians. Though I don't know why tbh. The most significant advantage I can see is the 10 more HP and Italia's above-average evasion, the total FP increase is only 5 assuming Kirishima + Kongou/Hiei. But the trade-off is slightly lower armor. The Italians have a higher best-fit caliber so maybe they have a smaller accuracy penalty than Kongou-class when using 46cms. Or maybe it's within the range of RNG, idk.

And yeah, 439 air power is overkill. The odds of having 3 terrible rolls and having so many fighter planes shot down is extremely low; you're more likely to get screwed over by Re Elite's torp or even a lucky shot by Ta Elite. I aim for 420 as per wikiwiki's suggestion, and I don't remember ever falling past 400 when I reach the boss node with 2 601s and 0 Reppuu Kai. This allows me to add an additional attack plane on Taihou's 8-slot.

mnpqraven
06-12-2015, 05:38 AM
I just started doing 5-5 after Winter Event and this is my fleet for 2-3 months
And I just got my last LSC ship aka Taihou last week and she's already married btw
I have a question: Are there any differences between the 1 CVl 2 CV 3 BB comp and the 3 CV 3 BB comp ?
And are there any people like me who have more of a problem with dead end than Re-Class' torpedoes lol
http://puu.sh/ilL4c/b52662b3d9.PNG

HydraGoliath
06-12-2015, 06:12 AM
mnpqraven

The 3CV Comp requires all FBB otherwise you need a CVL if you're going to use Slow BB.

I used to have a lot of trouble with the dead end when I first started doing 5-5 now my problem is the Re Class Elite.

mnpqraven
06-12-2015, 06:17 AM
What happens when i use 3 CVs along with Yamato-class ? 100% dead end chance ?

HydraGoliath
06-12-2015, 06:18 AM
mnpqraven

Night battle Troll sub node.

mnpqraven
06-12-2015, 06:22 AM
HydraGoliath oh right that's the upper 2nd node
Noted thanks for your reply, will still stick to Junyou i guess, i might try fast fleet later after having both Italia and Roma Kai

emiya
06-15-2015, 05:35 PM
Hmm so anyone has videos or examples about the 3 BB 3 SS way ?
I used that formation and got to boss node but the BB hit Wo-class FS very weak at night (12-13 hp each hit) so it is better to swap 1 Bulge = 1 AP shell ?

Perzeval
06-15-2015, 05:44 PM
What BBs did you use and what equipment setup? Usually at least one Yamato class + Bismarck K3 are required when going the 3BB3SS path.

emiya
06-16-2015, 02:58 AM
What BBs did you use and what equipment setup? Usually at least one Yamato class + Bismarck K3 are required when going the 3BB3SS path.

I used Musashi, Nagato and Mutsu. That is not going to work ?

HydraGoliath
06-16-2015, 03:42 AM
emiya

It should work but you're going to have a more difficult time killing the boss with them.

Blizzie
06-16-2015, 04:29 AM
I'll record a video of 3 BB 3 SS this month when I run it but it'll be using Yamato, Musashi, and Bismarck.

Betel
06-17-2015, 01:52 AM
Aaand finally, 5-5 goes down after exactly 17 weeks of play (I started on Feb 24). 6 batches of 3 attempts each (with a CV sparkling break every batch), or 18 attempts total. To be honest, I still cannot believe how lucky I got on the last batch.

I'll do a report since it might inspire people with not-so-optimal composition (read: zero LSC ships) to try this out - or perhaps the opposite...

Composition on final attempt (428 AA, BB positions rotating to keep them sparkled):


Kongou Kai Ni LVL 93: 381 Kai +2, 35.6 +1, Type91 +4 (firepower: 147)
Kirishima Kai Ni LVL 86: 35.6 Proto, 35.6 +1, Type91 +1 (firepower: 147)
Haruna Kai Ni LVL 84: 381 Kai +2, 41 Proto, Type91 +1 (firepower: 150)
Kaga Kai LVL 77: Shinden Kai Ni, Reppu, Reppu, Suisei Egusa (firepower: 154)
Akagi Kai LVL 69: Shinden Kai Ni, Reppu, Reppu, Tenzan Tomonoga (firepower: 149)
Hiryuu Kai Ni LVL 81: Shinden Kai Ni, Reppu, Type 62, Shinden Kai Ni (firepower: 159)

The worst amount of AA I lost on pre-final attempts is 48. Given that 377 + 48 = 425, this is cutting it very close for final attempt.

I started doing runs last month after clearing the event with a different composition - Haruna was only Kai, so I brought Kongou, Mutsu and Fusou Kai Ni and used Junyou Kai Ni instead of Hiryuu. I have no other BB - Nagato never dropped for me, 15 LSC attempts gave me zilch, and I didn't want to spend blueprints on the Italians (saving for Bismarck Drei). I also had no improved guns/shells, so I had to up-gun the BBs to reach cap. Comprehensibly, that didn't go well - 1 kill in 15 attempts, greatly struggling to sink the boss.

I gave up, leveled Haruna, improved equipment (to the extent time allowed me, since I won't do more than one improvement per day to avoid wasting screws), and retried this month. Summary of attempts, all with full-sparkled fleet and partially sparkled node and boss support (standard 2BB / 2DD / 2CVL):


Batch 1: Red at pre-boss, 1/5 Kill (parallel, all down expect sub), Red at pre-boss
Batch 2: Compass trolled, Fail to kill (head on), Red at pre-boss
Batch 3: Red at pre-boss, Compass trolled, Red at pre-boss
Batch 4: 2/5 Kill (parallel, all down except sub), Red at pre-boss, Red at node D (Wo-Class Kai on carrier)
Batch 5: Compass trolled, Red at pre-boss, Red at node A (crit on carrier)
Batch 6: 3/5 Kill (head on, Re-class still alive), 4/5 Kill (red-T, Re-class still alive), Final Kill (parallel, princess still alive)

The 3rd and 4th kill involved two BBs targeting the boss with the re-class still alive, and the final kill involved all three BB targeting the boss (one was orange) with the princess still alive... so yeah... I should have probably played the lottery rather than kancolle today.

Final comments:


With no LSC BB, this map is certainly doable but very, very hard. The essential problem is that "normal" BBs cannot hope to sink Wo-class Kai in a single NB DA, and the Re-class Elite is even worse. So, a good amount of luck is needed to win even if one survives to the boss node. This month I won 5/6 attempts, but last month I actually got to the boss 4 times and only managed one kill. To be honest, I am not sure if I want to try this again next month if I don't manage to get Bismarck in time. Spring E6 hardmode took me 31 attempts, but I didn't have to use node support and only sparkled for the last 3 attempts; in comparison, this was much more painful, and without the lucky finish, it would have probably taken me a total of 24-30 attempts rather than 18.
I would strongly suggest against up-gunning the BBs. Both Wo-class Kai and Re-class Elite have 50 evasion, which means 57% percentage to dodge according to the latest accuracy/evasion formulae. No matter your ship level and equipment improvements, you are not going to reach the hit rate cap of 97.5% against them. Switching two 35.6 for two 46 on a Kongou seems to reduce your hit rate by a whopping 12% - considering you can reach daytime firecap even with only partially improved guns, and you still aren't going to sink the boss in one NB DA barring crits without Hotels/Bisko, it is not worth it.

Next: hoping for some LSC luck...

Kuren
06-17-2015, 08:42 AM
@Betel (http://www.himeuta.net/members/10755-betel/)
Congrats on clearing! 5-5 was certainly a tough road as I also don't have any LSC ship but I was glad that I tried. Good luck on your LSC. :kongou_happy:


I didn't post here yet after clearing the map for the first time but figured I might as well do it now. :kaga_grin:
A thousand thanks to @Blizzie (http://www.himeuta.net/members/13-blizzie/) and for this guide, I couldn't have done this without all your support.

Composition & Equipment :

http://i.imgur.com/sZPX0fX.png

(Notes: All equipment are in their base stats and un-upgraded)
Junyou Kai Ni : Reppuu x3, Saiun (Swapped to Reppuu on final kill)
Kongou Kai Ni : 41cm, Proto 41cm, Type 0 Obs Plane, Type 91 AP
Kirishima Kai Ni: 41cm, Proto 41cm, Type 0 Obs Plane, Type 91 AP
Nagato Kai: 51cm, 41cm, Night Scout, Type 1 AP
Kaga Kai: Tenzan Tomonaga, Reppuu, Reppuu 601, Reppuu
Akagi Kai: Tenzan 601, Reppuu, Reppuu, Type 21 (Trained) Fighter

AS: 424 (Pre-Final) & 444 (Final)

Preparations:
Used both support expeditions with 2BB/2CVL/2DD in all of the runs. Node support ships are fully sparkled and only flagship sparkled for boss support. CVs are equipped with 3 best dive bombers and a radar.
All CV(L)s are sparkled to max (85) before sortieing. Didn't sparkle the BBs as they rarely ran out naturally due to all the MVPs they will be getting. Junyou was used as the flagship for obvious reasons.

Comments:
Pre-boss nodes:
First node is usually a free-pass as long as Re-Class did not manage to get an unlucky crit on your CV(L)s. Second node is pretty much the same thing as first node if Wo-class Kai shows up/Ta-Class Elite somehow survives support fire and still crits you. Third node is the only real threat while support comes in extremely handy in preventing Re-Class Elite from firing her second shell with more than 50% health and of course the closing torpedo. The RNG can be heavy due to the fact we still need to tank Re-Class Elite's attacks 3 times at the very least, this is where sparkles become crucial as none of the ships are likely to survive a focus fire attempt.
Secondly, node support is very important to maximize chances of survival pre-boss, especially when you don't have Yamato-class BBs to use. Not only it allows you to focus on Re-Class & Re-Class Elite sooner, it prevents the lesser enemies from dealing too much scratch damage on your ships which can often make a difference at pre-boss node whether you manage to get away moderately damaged or heavily damaged in just a few points of HP difference. You better be safe than sorry.

Boss node:
Without Yamato-class, Saiun is recommended because Red T will literally kill your damage output even with support. Other than that it is about praying not getting Head-On engagement, boss support succeed in sinking at least one ship, and your ships perform a DA or a daytime CI on the boss.
Again, I wouldn't recommend dropping boss support unless you possess both hotels, regardless whether you are in pre-final or final form. Boss support becomes crucial in the final form if you want to have a solid chance at succeeding.

A summary on my runs:
Run 1: Deadend
Run 2: Retreat at Pre-boss
Run 3: Red T at boss, failed boss kill.
Run 4: Green T at boss, Daytime Kill, Success 1/5
Run 5: Parallel at boss, Daytime Kill, Success 2/5
Run 6: Retreat at Pre-boss
Run 7: Head-On at boss, Night battle Kill, Success 3/5
Run 8: Retreat at Pre-boss
Run 9: Green T at boss, Daytime Kill, Success 4/5
Run 10: Deadend
Run 11: Head-On at boss, failed boss kill.
Run 12: Parallel at boss, Daytime Kill, Success 5/5

Overall, a far from impossible map as long as we have to right equipment, levels and of course, luck and patience. LSC ships will probably make things alot easier but never compulsory. If I do only 3-4 runs a day and waiting out on short repairs, resources and buckets loss are not too noticable as long as you run expeditions full time.
Hopefully this helps people who wish to give it a try at this map but don't have any of the LSC big eaters.

SS for The Final Kill
http://i.imgur.com/qqGJYjf.png

Blizzie
06-18-2015, 06:51 AM
Betel Kuren

Congratulations to both of you on your first clears!
Thanks for coming back and giving feedback on your experience so others can see it's doable without LSC ships.

Nerfx
06-18-2015, 07:46 AM
Nice guide there, think I got pretty lucky myself though on my first clear ever. Took me a total of 20 runs, 10 to reach final and 10 for final kill.
All my clears can be found here, I've just recently started to stream Twitch (http://www.twitch.tv/kael606/v/6140277) :yahagi_happy:

My fleet setup

Junyou Kai Ni: Reppu, 2x Shiden K2, Type 62 Zero Fighter Bomber
Yamato Kai: 51cm, 46cm, Type 0 Obs plane, Type 1 AP
Musashi Kai: 2x 46 cm, Type 0 Obs plane, Type 1 AP
Bismarck Drei: 2x 38cm Twin Gun mount Kai, Ar196 Kai, Type 91 AP
Taihou Kai: Shiden K2, 2x Reppu, Ryuusei 601 Air Group
Kaga Kai: 2x Shiden K2, Reppu, Ryuusei Kai

Had a total of 427 AS
I've only used boss support for the last 6 finals runs. Out of those 6 runs I got my first dead end and finally the clear.
My resources were pretty bad since I've done tons of LSC for Shioi prior to that >.> but it's a pretty fun map nonetheless:yahagi_grin:
http://i.imgur.com/68GavPE.jpg?1

kyu bey
06-19-2015, 06:17 AM
are the 3 cv(l) must be equipped with something like 9 reppu / i can ditch 1 (to 8)?

Blizzie
06-19-2015, 04:36 PM
are the 3 cv(l) must be equipped with something like 9 reppu / i can ditch 1 (to 8)?

You can equip any amount of any Fighter Plane you want as long as you are able to obtain Air Superiority.

Maniwani
06-19-2015, 05:36 PM
kyu bey

For the final kill, you can only get away with 8 Reppuu (or equivalents) if you swap T62 FB into your setup. However, it's only feasible if you have the 601 and/or kai variants; otherwise, you'll have to swap out some bombers as well to get enough FP to achieve AS, which is less efficient than just giving up one bomber for one more fighter.

It also depends on which CV/L you use, since there's a slight difference in FP. Assuming that you're using 3 slots of fighters and one bomber on each:

CV: Kaga > Taihou > Hiryuu > Souryuu > Akagi > Shoukaku = Zuikaku
CVL: Junyou > Hiyou > Chitose = Chiyoda

They might be differences of only a single digit, but if you're floating around the 420 FP mark, those single digits add up and can determine whether or not you clear the map.

kyu bey
06-20-2015, 02:54 AM
Maniwani: from what i count using
kaga kai reppu x 3 + blue plane
souryuu ni blue plane + reppu x 3
hiryuu kai ni blue plane + reppu x 3

i only got 408 air power. that enough (before last kill)?
+
aren't they(the ...ryuu) better for support exped instead of sortie?

Maniwani
06-20-2015, 04:29 AM
kyu bey

The bomber slot doesn't matter that much since your BB will be dealing the bulk of your damage. If you really care about CV shelling then you can replace Hiryuu with Akagi, but you lose valuable FP and if you run into the Wo-class kai formation on node D, you'll probably run out of bombers by the time you reach the boss anyway. You can use the cranes if you're really desperate, but their base attack power is so low that they'll have trouble against medium armor.

408 FP should be enough for initial form.

goesto11
06-20-2015, 04:45 PM
Cleared 5-5 for the first time after putting this off for months XD. :kongou_happy:
End of day battle - Kongou kai ni takes out Boss during 1st shelling phase.
http://i60.tinypic.com/2nb67nt.png

End of night battle - Southern War Hime sunk by Kongou Kai ni.
http://i60.tinypic.com/e16qkm.png



Total Sorties: 15
Total Retreats: 7/15 (all at Node E)
Total Dead Ends: 2/15
Boss Node Kill Ratio: 5/6. One failed boss kill. All others A rank (only sub left) including final kill
Total Resources Used: Fuel = 10,452. Ammo = 16,647 (does NOT include fuel/ammo used for sparkling runs which was not insignificant).
Total Buckets used: 61. Did not screw around here - if a ship was damaged, it got repaired. Total does include 5 for last run. Have over 500 buckets and just happy to clear 5-5. I did use dock repairs for two main breaks so count could have been higher.
Both support expeditions used for all Sorties.
Main fleet sparkled and first 4 ships of support expeditions sparkled for first 3 sorties. After that, sparkled entire non-boss/normal node support fleet.


Fleet composition - 3xFBB + 3xCV going A->D->E->N (Boss)


Kongou Kai ni (97->98) – 1x381mm/50 Kai (+1) + 35.6cm (max) + Type 0 Obs. + Type 91 AP (+6)
Kirishima Kai ni (91) –1x381mm/50 Kai (+1) + 35.6cm (max) + Type 0 Obs. + Type 91 AP (+6)
Bismarck Drei (92->93) – 41cm (+6) + 1x 38cm kai +Night Recon + Type 91 AP (+6)
Kaga Kai (95->96) – Reppuu, Reppuu, Reppuu 601, Suisei Egusa
Akagi Kai (92) – Reppuu, Reppuu, Reppuu, Ryuusei 601
Hiryuu Kai ni (93->94) – Tenzan Tomonaga, Reppuu 601, Reppuu, Saiun (added Saiun after 3rd Sortie. Had Reppuu before that)

Total Airpower = 425. Always had AS on all nodes.

Boss Node Support Fleet = Fusou Kai ni, Yamashiro kai ni, Unryuu Kai, Amagi Kai, Yuudachi Kai ni, Ayanami kai ni. Had FuMO25 radar and Type 1 AP shell on BBV along with 2x 41cm (+1 or more) main guns. CV had 3x Suisei M12/601 + Type 32 RADAR. DD had 2x12.7cm HA (late model) + RADAR

Non-Boss/Normal Node Support Fleet = Haruna Kai ni, Hiei Kai ni, Ryuujou Kai ni, Junyou Kai ni, Fubuki Kai ni and Shimakaze Kai. BB had 41cm + 35.6cm (both improved +1 or more) and 2x RADAR. CVL had 3x Suisei M12 + RADAR. DD had 2x12.7cm HA (late model) + RADAR

Sortie Details


Retreat at Node E: Akagi hit to taiha on opening airstrike then Re-class Elite one-shots Hiryuu to taiha for good measure. Non-boss support fleet shows up 1/3 times, including a no-show at Node E.
Dead-End (Node L): Akagi at chuuha (moderate damage), but otherwise fleet not too bad. Non-boss support shows up 2/3 times.
Make it to Boss node, but Bismarck taiha'd during day battle. FAIL to kill boss during NB. :kongou_grin: I did NOT have a T-cross disadvantage, and this prompted me to add a Saiun to Hiryuu from here on. Non-boss support shows up 3/3.
Retreat at Node E: Re-Elite again. First Hiryuu to chuuha during opening airstrike then Re-chan finishes her off with opening torp salvo. Non-boss support shows up 3/3.
A-rank win at Boss: Boss taken out during day battle! In fact, only enemy sub was left at end of day battle (good run!) All support expeditions show up 100%
Retreat at Node E: Again, it's all Re-Elite. Kaga to chuuha on opening airstrike then Re-chan then finishes of Kaga to taiha. Non-boss support shows up 1/3 despite all ships sparkled.
Dead End (Node L): Sucked because I only had scratch on all ships after Node E battle. Damn you RNG! Non-boss support shows up 100%
Retreat at Node E: Re-Elite one-shots Kaga (slight scratch damage until then) to taiha (4hp). Non-boss support shows up 100%
Retreat at Node E: Re-Elite again. Opening torp salvo one-shot's Hiryuu to taiha. Non-boss support shows up 100%
A-rank win at Boss in NB: This time Re-Elite "only" shoots Hiryuu to chuuha at Node E. Entering NB, only boss is left with 39hp, and Kongou easily takes out the Boss for MVP. All support fleet show up 100%
Retreat at Node E. Re-Elite takes out Kaga (scratch - 70hp) to taiha (10hp) during opening airstrike. Non-boss support shows up 100%
A-rank win at Boss in NB: Again, Re-Elite takes Hiryuu down to chuuha at Node E, but thankfully not taiha. Only boss left for NB (ignoring the sub) and both Kongou & Kirishima finish off the boss. All support fleets show up 100%
A-rank win at Boss in NB: Boss left with 28hp for NB, but Re-chan also still left (110hp). Kongou takes out the boss while Kirishima and Bismarck Drei finish off Re-chan. Non-boss support fails to show up once (Node D).
Retreat at Node E: 3 guesses who - yes, Re-Elite up to her old tricks with a one-shot taiha of Hiryuu (who was completely healthy) down to 4hp during shelling phase. Non-boss support shows up 100%
Final Kill - A-rank win at Boss: Boss Node support does a fantastic job, including about 100hp damage on the boss! Kongou takes down boss during day battle's first shelling phase. Decided to finish off Southern War Princess in NB to celebrate clearing 5-5, and Kongou takes her out.


Comments:


@Blizzie: Nice job on the guide and thanks for doing it. Was very helpful. :kongou_happy: A few small suggestions: You might want to add a bit more for those who don't have all/any LSC ships, update for new guns/ships (e.g. Italia & Roma), equipment improvement, and factor in "overload" penalties. My BBs rarely missed with the above set up, and I do not regret passing on 2x46cm guns on FBB. Also, without "Hotel Class", have to agree with others that a Saiun is a good idea. Different situation IMO when you have to kill the Boss outright each time rather than being able to "chip away" at it like during events. Lastly, you might want to give some added commentary for situations where someone has Yamato or Musashi, but not both - go with a slow BB fleet at that point or stick with FBB?
This map reminds me a LOT of an event EO map - a difficult EO map. First time I've use both support expeditions at the same time, and it took me more sorties (14 previous record) to clear 5-5 than any map so far - including event maps (to be fair, I cleared Winter E-5 on "Easy" (a good decision in retrospect), and wasn't around for Summer 2014 AL/MI). VERY RNG heavy map. Also, this is "SparkleColle" at its "finest".
Re-class Elite did not disappoint - especially if you get her in line ahead formation (2/3 chance at Node E). Shudder at the thought of Re Flagship Kai.
Kongou Kai ni easily got MVP the most. Granted my highest level ship, but I was surprised how well she did compared to Kirishima Kai ni and Bismarck Drei. Improved guns - including 381mm/50 Kai, along with improved AP shells work well.
Ugh, this is NOT a resource friendly map!

Recommendations:


BOTH Support Expeditions a must unless maybe you have both Yamato-class. Even then, CV will be your weak point, and support expedition taking out some ships (or at least damaging to chuuha/taiha) really helps. Definitely recommend 3xDive Bombers on CV(L) for support fleets along with AP shell for Boss Support BB(V) unless your support fleets are missing a lot. Overall, mine did well, almost always taking out 1-2 ships plus usually damaging others.
IMO, sparkling ALL ships for non-boss node support fleet is a MUST. Even then it's not guaranteed to show up, and you do want it to show up.
Akagi Kai does just fine here. IMO Akagi Kai > Souryuu Kai ni. CV is all about surviving to the boss node, and Akagi's higher armor plus 10 more HP help with that more than +5 evasion for Souryuu. Hiryuu Kai ni does OK, but if I had a sufficiently leveled Taihou Kai, I'd go per guide - Kaga, Akagi, and Taihou. For a "slow BB fleet", I'd use Kaga, Akagi and Junyou Kai ni.
You need high level ships (80 minimum and 90+ preferred) to have any reasonable chance of success without Yamato-class (probably even with Yamato-class). My main fleet was all over level 90, and I still got sent home about 50% of the time.

emiya
06-22-2015, 03:03 PM
Well some people did the review so why not ?

http://i.imgur.com/d6a47rF.jpg

cost total of 11 run for me. 6 times coming back and 5 times reaching the boss (managed to kill Wo flagship everytime even when having T-red or my support fleet in boss miss all their attack :( - commend my Musashi )

Fleet detail: 3 BB + 2 CV + 1 CVL


Junyou Kai Ni lv 93: Reppu, 2x Shiden K2, Type 62 Zero Fighter Bomber
Yamato Kai lv 63: 51cm prototype, 41cm, Type 0 Obs plane, Type 1 AP
Musashi Kai lv 52: 2x 46 cm, Type 0 Obs plane, Type 91 AP
Mutsu Kai lv 80: 2x 41cm, Type 0 Obs plane, Type 1 AP
Akagi Kai lv 76: 2x Shiden K2, Reppu, Ryuusei (601 Air Group)
Kaga Kai lv 74: 2x Shiden K2, Reppu (601 air group) ,Tenzan Model 12 (Tomonaga Squadron)
final kill changed blue planes to Type 62 Zero Fighter Bomber for AS

sortie detail

1. Kill 1st- Managed to kill the boss daytime with 2 support expe.
2. Retreat - Retreat at Pre-boss - Re-class just crit my Akagi to red
3. Kill 2nd - Have Red-T at boss - still managed to kill all the fleet except the sub at night battle
4. Retreat - Retreat at node 2 - Wo-kai just keeps attacking my Junyou and there's Green-T so ...
5. Kill 3rd- Managed to kill daytime
6. Retreat - Retreat at Pre-boss - Re-class with the plane bring my Mutsu to red hp
7. Retreat - Retreat at Pre-boss - Green-T again and Musashi got rekt by Re-class attack
8. Kill 4nd - Have all red-T before boss node and head-on on boss node so there's no problem
9. Dead-end - First time dead-end
10. Retreat - Retreat at Pre-boss - Another Green-T so Kaga and Nagato got rekt by Re-class
11. Final kill - although 2 of my CV/CVL can't do anything (no plane for Akagi - Jun'you got moderate damage), Nagato also has moderate damage and the support node MISSED all of their attack (not killing anything), still managed to kill FS with Musashi at night

My thought:
1. Yamato-class makes this map much, much easier to clear. I think 3/5 kill I have to depend on Musashi, especially the red-T and the final kill (just 1 double attack to kill the wo-flag).
2. Good equipment. Besides reppu/Shiden kai 2, AP shell is very important since 1 double attack with AP shell can rekt the FS.
3. For people having yamato-class, node support is important (to clear enemies so Re-class can be killed quickly) but boss-support is optional. In my last kill the support node missed everything but I still finished it with Musashi.
4. It can be a good idea to go double-line in Re-class pre-boss IF YOU HAVE Yamato-class. I noticed Re-class can only rekt at most 2 of my girls (sometimes only make light damage to my ship) and still shut down Re-class before the 2nd shelling phase (medium - heavy damaged so she almost missed all attack).
5. Pray RNG won't troll you

Perzeval
06-24-2015, 09:56 AM
Was hella lucky ths month with 5-5, needed a total of 7 sorties going the slow BB route. 1 retreat at preboss, 1 dead end. Used mid-node support only but wow, they really packed a punch. Sparkling everybody was worth it, 4 out 5 kills were done without night battle.

Most mentionable Kanmusu: Mutsu doing a 140 dmg cutin on Wo Kai despite of a red T on 2nd node, and 1 shotting the boss during the final kill. AP shell > Radar anyday anytime!

Yamako
09-20-2015, 09:11 AM
I always get green T at Re-elite.

Fuck sake I don't even have Saiun.

Tribell
11-01-2015, 10:59 PM
Sorry for digging this one guide up, but doesn't Aircraft Proficiency system having been set in stone 2 months ago doesn't change the way this map is supposed to be tackled? For example, not to have this many fighters equipped on CV's in favor of more bombers, making different distribution of planes and more?

Blizzie
11-02-2015, 12:50 AM
Sorry for digging this one guide up, but doesn't Aircraft Proficiency system having been set in stone 2 months ago doesn't change the way this map is supposed to be tackled? For example, not to have this many fighters equipped on CV's in favor of more bombers, making different distribution of planes and more?

This guide is now out of date with no probable chance of being updated since I no longer actively play.

kuavera
11-02-2015, 10:57 AM
Sorry for digging this one guide up, but doesn't Aircraft Proficiency system having been set in stone 2 months ago doesn't change the way this map is supposed to be tackled? For example, not to have this many fighters equipped on CV's in favor of more bombers, making different distribution of planes and more?

I guess you could still use the regular old comp and just use aircalc.net or something to figure out the optimal plane setup after the introduction of the Aircraft Proficiency system... or you could run something like 1~2FBB 4~5CV and kill everything before the battle even starts, combine that with support and make Re cry.

Tribell
11-07-2015, 04:44 PM
Thanks for the response.

After I have performed my monthly clear of 5-5, I thought I'd share my composition for getting optimal results on this map. Here we go:

Junyou Kai Ni (99) - Reppuu (601) (>>), Reppuu (601) (>>), Type 52-C Zero (Iwai) (>>), Reppuu (>>)
Bismarck Drei (96) - 38cm Kai (+1), 38cm Kai (+1), Ar196Kai, Type 91 AP Shell (+6)
Nagato Kai (90) - Proto 51cm (+1), Proto 41cm, Type 0 Observation Plane (>>), Type 91 AP Shell (+6)
Mutsu Kai (88) - Proto 51cm (+1), Proto 41cm, Type 0 Observation Plane (>>), Type 91 AP Shell (+6)
Kaga Kai (99) - Ryuusei (601) (>>), Ryuusei (601) (>>), Type 53 Zero (Iwamoto) (>>), Suisei (601) (>>)
Zuikaku Kai Ni (90) - Tenzan 12 (Murata) (>>), Tenzan 12 (Murata) (>>), Tenzan 12 (Tomonaga) (>>), Suisei (Ekusa) (>>)

Additional comments:

- With all planes at highest veterancy I am able to reach around 390-420 in airpower. If it's lacking to secure supremacy, then switch one of Suiseis on CV's for an additional Reppuu.
- After discovering that Nagato-classes are not getting overweight penalty for using 51cm's I've found no reason to use Hotels over them. This option is just so much cheaper.
- For 2nd CV use either Zuikaku Kai Ni, Shoukaku Kai Ni or Taihou Kai. Cranes at Kai Ni Kou has inefficient plane displacement to secure safety of the planes and to prevent the loss of their rank. Kaga Kai as 1st CV is a no-brainer.
- Always remember to place the CVL (Junyou in this case) as the flagship since she'll be most vulnerable to the attacks.
- Line ahead on all nodes and remember to sparkle your ships prior to the tackling of the map. Whether it'll be 1-1 or PvP, do not forget about it.
- All things considered, Re-Class Elite on preboss can STILL cause to end your run prematurely, although you have the greater chance of survival thanks to Aircraft Proficiency system, which enables your carriers to participate in shelling phase.

Best of luck to you out there.

oriscus
11-07-2015, 04:58 PM
kuavera
I totally forgot about support shelling last month! No wonder I had so many problems with my carriers getting beat up.