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Saya
04-26-2015, 05:59 AM
Saya here.

So I'm sure all of you guys may know about how ridiculous AJAX thread (the thing that automatically loads latest posts on the thread without refreshing) is in terms of resource consumption. Mainly because of this, I've been pretty much unable to add any good QoL changes to the forum. I would test it out on test forums and some of these interesting features hog a lot of resources; resources that we simply cannot afford with AJAX threads in place.

Due to this, I wish to ask the users if they're interested in keeping the AJAX threads or they want new features. Nothing has been finalized and we didn't PICK anything, but here are some that we are considering:



Revamped notification system

Adds a top bar to the website which gives better aesthetic and user-friendly method to view notifications. I tried it out and took a screenshot.
http://i.imgur.com/c0PboPx.jpg



Making PM into an IM

Exactly what it sounds like. I guess it'll be somewhat similar to facebook ish in regards to how that PM works. Due to our decisions regarding live chat on forum though, there will be no chatrooms for forumers. It will most likely strictly be a PM system (that you can invite others to, maybe?) Still in brainstorming phase, not really sure what to come out of it.



Revamped reputation system

Probably keeping the actual system intact (still in debate/brainstorming phase), but changing how this stupid thing works.



Implementation of a photo gallery

Exactly as it sounds. Features based on what I read seems really really nifty though.



Implementation of a file sharing service

Same as above, exactly as it sounds.



etc etc... (a lot of things in mind, just not sure how realistic they are in terms of integration)




I think AJAX threads module is a really handy tool and I'm more than willing to accept keeping it if that's what users desire. But if perhaps you guys actually don't want it as much as I thought, then perhaps we can better use resources on something else. I'll create a simple poll based on whether you want to keep or discard AJAX changes for other features. Everyone, including staff members, is more than welcome to vote and give their opinions. Himeuta needs to keep moving forward, just like all of us! We'll need your ideas to better the environment for everyone involved.

EDIT: A small thing I would like to add is, there IS a way to have both new features and AJAX threads, but that would mean I would have to narrow the members using AJAX threads somehow. That would most likely mean I would probably be forced to give such feature to monthly subscribers only, not something you and I will both appreciate. But do think about that as well!

Zylphe
04-26-2015, 06:14 AM
Revamped notification system

Adds a top bar to the website which gives better aesthetic and user-friendly method to view notifications. I tried it out and took a screenshot.
Being able to see who mentioned/quoted you on the same page instead of the current need to go to a separate page would definitely be nice.




Making PM into an IM

Exactly what it sounds like. I guess it'll be somewhat similar to facebook ish in regards to how that PM works. Due to our decisions regarding live chat on forum though, there will be no chatrooms for forumers. It will most likely strictly be a PM system (that you can invite others to, maybe?) Still in brainstorming phase, not really sure what to come out of it.
No comment on this, I rarely use PMs. It does sound really nice on paper though.




Revamped reputation system

Probably keeping the actual system intact (still in debate/brainstorming phase), but changing how this stupid thing works.
No comment on this.




Implementation of a photo gallery
Implementation of a file sharing service
.
This is unnecessary imo. External services like imgur and dropbox etc work fine. Feels like this one in particular would be the most resource intensive (correct me if I'm wrong) and I'm iffy about its reliability even after implementation (judging from the current Reference Locally thing GCT has).

Saya
04-26-2015, 06:16 AM
Zylphe These are just couple ideas I thought of on top of my head. The point is not to discuss the actual features being implemented, but to talk about whether it's worth dropping AJAX threads to add other QoL changes to the forum. That's our main discussion. Other ideas are more than welcome, however.

artificial
04-26-2015, 06:18 AM
>AJAX thread module or new features

I'd rather make this forum more stable, so I'm going for new features. If someone wants my attention, he can simply give me a mention anywhere in this forum. It might mean constant F5 spamming for those who hang around in GCT though. I guess it's a question of whether the users are fine with a slow-paced GCT or they want to keep the thread the way it is right now.

I also wonder if we can restrict the thread auto-refresh to specific threads only, and how much resources it uses up compared to keeping it on all the threads in this forum.

>revamped notification system

From a design standpoint, I'm all for it. There's lots of unused space on the top left corner, and I'm glad we're making use of it now.

>photo galleries and file sharing

I don't really need these in this forum. Like Zylphe said, there are other sites dedicated for this. I'd rather keep resource consumption as low as possible.

Saya
04-26-2015, 06:20 AM
I also wonder if we can restrict the thread auto-refresh to specific threads only, and how much resources it uses up compared to keeping it on all the threads in this forum.

We can, but since most of the reloading is on GCT anyway so it's not like it actually helps reducing the load, haha.

Zylphe
04-26-2015, 06:24 AM
Well, tbh the AJAX thread is practically only important for GCT; most other threads don't update fast enough and don't rely on constant user-to-user interaction as much as GCT. (e.g. I can post something in another thread and get an answer hours later without it being forgotten, but if GCT doesn't notice that one post then it's basically lost to the void). So as artifical said, is it possible to have our cake and eat it too?

...And just as I was typing that, Saya replies. Ironically that almost disputes my point

Yeah, it's a hard choice. Though I guess if there isn't auto-refresh, then GCT slows down for everyone so maybe everyone will be able to catch up on the posts anyway

laser
04-26-2015, 06:34 AM
@Saya (http://www.himeuta.net/members/1-saya/) I found that AJAX auto-update thing as something really cool I had never seen on other forums.

after using it a lot however, I have found that I still refresh the page manually to make sure I do not miss posts. it also pushes posts off the screen while I am reading

I was thinking it does not do much for threads other than GCT. is it separate from the mention system? I like the location we currently have for mentions, it really catches the eye when one pops up

to sum up my thoughts on AJAX: I like it but find several parts of it redundant

artificial
04-26-2015, 06:36 AM
We can, but since most of the reloading is on GCT anyway so it's not like it actually helps reducing the load, haha.

Then we can either make it a privilege for premo users or the like, or just scrap it altogether. Either way, your call.


Well, tbh the AJAX thread is practically only important for GCT; most other threads don't update fast enough and don't rely on constant user-to-user interaction as much as GCT. (e.g. I can post something in another thread and get an answer hours later without it being forgotten, but if GCT doesn't notice that one post then it's basically lost to the void). So as artifical said, is it possible to have our cake and eat it too?

...And just as I was typing that, Saya replies. Ironically that almost disputes my point

Yeah, it's a hard choice. Though I guess if there isn't auto-refresh, then GCT slows down for everyone so maybe everyone will be able to catch up on the posts anyway

I think GCT regulars can get used to the lack of auto-refresh rather easily. Most forums with some sort of random thread don't bother with it anyway.

Observer 39
04-26-2015, 06:43 AM
I'm alright without the AJAX thread stuff, considering it's probably most in use in the GCT compared to anywhere else in the forum, barring some event/other game threads (which is what...a few 10-someodd threads out of over four thousand?), especially if it makes the forum better through some other means. Also when AJAX auto-refreshes, it has a tendency to "eat" posts until you hard refresh anyways...

I'm not exactly sure what else I can add to all this. Of the features you're proposing, the only one that really sticks out to me is the notification revamp. I'll echo the others that having a photo gallery/file sharing system is not needed, though. There's plenty of other options for those elsewhere.

ktkrk8
04-26-2015, 06:59 AM
One thing you can do is make AJAX a subscriber thing or make it where subscribers have the normal 30 update and non subscribers have a longer time like 60 seconds

ScarletSoul
04-26-2015, 06:59 AM
I'd take either a total loss or a limiting of Auto Update-chan for some new features on the forums. As mentioned, the AJAX thread stuff only really affects GCT currently. And even then, I notice that it tends to start missing posts after a while if you don't refresh the page. Or it starts pushing posts you want to read.
Losing it for shiny new features isn't really a big change. We'll just end up using the F5 key more often.

Saya
04-26-2015, 07:02 AM
ktkrk8 No, I can't afford to do that. That would still make the load pretty heavy.

URSvAir14
04-26-2015, 07:23 AM
To be honest most of the time AJAX doesn't work for me - I still just refresh pages when I want to see new posts. Even if it did work I'd prefer to get new features instead of not having to press a key on my keyboard every few minutes. It might be a different case for people who sit in GCT but I'm sure most of them would prefer to use an IM based system anyway.

Audiodelus
04-26-2015, 07:29 AM
While the AJAX threads are a nice feature, I still find myself refreshing out of both habit and because it does start to work less effectively the longer it runs. If you were having a conversation with someone in GCT, you can just name them for the notification or vice-versa and the key factors are still there. People might miss out on a few posts if they look away for a few minutes, but that might have happened anyway at the rate GCT sometimes moves. I would consider it a luxury since most forums don't have it and would probably pay for it if I ventured into the GCT more. I find the 50 or odd guests watching the GCT might have an opinion, but whether they voice it is another thing.

Argho
04-26-2015, 07:45 AM
Auto refreshing is kind of nice but since it's useful mainly for GCT why not replace it with a regular chat?

Subpyro
04-26-2015, 08:24 AM
Personally, I've never really found too much use in AJAX threads. Therefore, I would be all up for their removal. What I would also like to express is that we do not necessarily have to push resource consumption to the uttermost limits. In other words, even if it wouldn't mean adding new features or upgrading the current ones, I would personally still be up for the removal of AJAX threads just to lower the load. However, if there are handy features planned, I won't push them away. ;)

Revamped notification system
Judging from the screenshot shared, I'm all up for this change and would in fact really like to see it implemented. Both aesthetically- and organization-wise, I believe this would be a splendid improvement.

Making PM into an IM
I'm personally fine with either PM or IM, so it doesn't play much of an importance to me. Whether the change would be done or not, I would go with it.

Revamped reputation system
This is one matter that will probably require quite a lot of thinking and discourse to shape on a neutral and balanced way. However, as pretty much the majority of those who know me are aware, this change is something I would really like to see happen. Whether in the shape of remodel, a new system addition, or however we would deem most appropriate and efficient.

Implementation of a photo gallery
Cannot really say I'm too much of a fan of such a feature, but I don't really have any complaints either. I would, however, personally put it under the lowest priority section on the potential to-do list.

Implementation of a file sharing service
This might actually come handy at various occasions, but I'm a bit worried about the consumption rate such a feature could bring. Besides that, it might just end up really good.

etc etc...
The more ideas the merrier, even if they do not take action at the end of the day. We should probably keep a log of them, though. Down to detail we might come up with at that time.

Chanpuru
04-26-2015, 08:26 AM
I'd love new features but at the same time I love update-kun to death.

I would say it's really hard to follow a thread like GCT without AJAX. The times that we haven't had update-kun, I've felt that I've miss so much and that I always had to catch up but still wound up a page behind.

Can you limit the thread that have AJAX enabled? Let's say for instance GCT, event, or update threads were the only threads using AJAX. This way you'd still have resources for features.

nobununga
04-26-2015, 08:29 AM
Chanpuru I think half the problem is that by doing that we're not reducing server load much, if at all.

I personally pop in and out of the GCT, and I don't find AJAX helps much. But, I do feel like AJAX+GCT kinda makes Himeuta... unique?
Argho has a point though. A regular chatbox/shoutbox could replace what GCT does, even if not perfectly.

Either way, +1 to the QoL from me. A revamped notification system is always good, if nothing else.

Chanpuru
04-26-2015, 08:31 AM
@Chanpuru (http://www.himeuta.net/members/3735-chanpuru/) I think half the problem is that by doing that we're not reducing server load much, if at all.

I personally pop in and out of the GCT, and I don't find AJAX helps much. But, I do feel like AJAX+GCT kinda makes Himeuta... unique?

I never see over 100 users in GCT. When you are talking about a couple of threads vs the whole board, I think it would make a huge impact.

Personally, yes I've never been on a forum that had it.

nobununga
04-26-2015, 08:33 AM
We can, but since most of the reloading is on GCT anyway so it's not like it actually helps reducing the load, haha.
Chanpuru fyi

CRIT MAGNET
04-26-2015, 08:33 AM
If I get the things right with the notification idea, it will tell you instantly if someone mentionned you and/or quoted you, like on facebook right ?
If you have this, I guess you can afford to reload manually on GCT for the messages not mentionning you. You won't miss anything that was adressed to you. This notification thing is best idea in the ones, you're proposing in my opinion.

I think it's worth trying. We had sometimes GCT without the auto-refresh. Yes it was a bit slower but we were still chatting on it and it wasn't a big problem.

Chanpuru
04-26-2015, 08:34 AM
@nobununga (http://www.himeuta.net/members/6845-nobununga/) Even if that's true, I'd like to give it a try. The load difference maybe more than we expect.

I'd just believe that AJAX makes many threads like GCT wonderful and that'd it be a shame to see it go. So if possible, why not just a limit the threads first and see the load difference. If it doesn't make a dent so be it, but we don't know until we try.

Aquan
04-26-2015, 09:50 AM
Well, AJAX is certainly a convenient thing, but if it ends up allowing the site move forward, I suppose going the F5 route wouldn't be so bad :P I do wonder about how it would affect the site overall, tho.



Revamped notification system


Pretty nice idea, having the notifications would certainly be helpful with not having to go into the mentions/quotes page every time I get a notification. Would it just be "click the notification to be sent to the post in question" or would it also be possible to view the entire post from that popup?




Making PM into an IM


Not sure about that one, PMs have their use the way they are and I'm not really a fan of Facebook... I'd propably prefer having the PM system remain as it is.




Revamped reputation system


Ah, the endless struggle. Don't know what to suggest, but I'd say "go for whatever approach you deem sufficient". You're most likely not gonna please everyone regardless of what's gonna be changed/remain, so just go for the "lesser evil" would be my suggestion :p



Implementation of a photo gallery


Not sure if there's much point to using the site's resources when there's already a decent alternative, in form of imgur or any other image-hosting/album-hosting site. I'd propably prefer the resources go to more vital things.



Implementation of a file sharing service


Same as above.

In terms of AJAX, tho, my final opinion would be "I'd rather have it, BUT I can live without it, It'll get some getting used to tho"

Laisy
04-26-2015, 10:09 AM
If it helps the forum performance, I don't mind removing auto-update feature. Back then in the old GCT we manually refresh it and GCT is still going very fast anyway, I doubt it will affect GCT too much.

chronomeister
04-26-2015, 11:28 AM
Well the AJAX updater kinda sucks to begin with. Concept is great but still too buggy. If a request ever times out, it gets stuck in a endless paused update state (this was the main reason why people say auto-update died for them) and occasionally it would skip a post or two proly due to it being posted close to being updated.

So while I do like the AJAX thing probably more than the new features, I'm not going to be attached to a buggy piece of software. And I've already written a javascript autoupdater for the time you finally do kill the switch. Though it could use some improvements cause right now all it does is refresh the page. Gotta make it more AJAX-like.

iamablocker
04-26-2015, 12:57 PM
Revamped notification system


I remember putting in a suggestion that each notification made now DIRECTLY loads into the said post and not have it load into the notifications page like in most other forums- i see a view all notifications link there so is it being put in?





Revamped reputation system



you can probably make the reputation system similar to another forum i frequent- which the reputation system has different icons representing different kinds of reputation- like/informative/insightful/hugs/funny/alarming/facepalm.

HaganeNoKaze
04-26-2015, 02:08 PM
AJAX is a very cool feature, mainly for GCT. But if it blocks the evolution possibilities of the forum, so, let's forget it.
I like the possibility to have a new notification system, and the one Saya showed in first is looking nice.



Revamped reputation system

Probably keeping the actual system intact (still in debate/brainstorming phase), but changing how this stupid thing works.


Implementation of a photo gallery

Exactly as it sounds. Features based on what I read seems really really nifty though.


Implementation of a file sharing service

Same as above, exactly as it sounds.


Very nice stuff there. I have a question about the reputation system, you said "changing how this stupid thing works", while i don't use often the reputation system, what is your concern about it actually ? Even if we could saw relatively recently some dramas, it's remains (and hopefully) rare.

acolyte
04-26-2015, 03:19 PM
Personally I prefer the AJAX threads over new features, but I'm fighting a losing battle here.
The reputation system is working as well as it is, I've never seen a problem with it and so is a majority of the community.
For PM/IM, I personally prefer the way it is right now.
For photo gallery/file sharing, it's interesting but I don't think it's crucial for this forum.
After all, using off-site image and file sharing sites has been robust.
It might be interesting to host all the data here, but not an utmost priority for me.

As they say, simple is best. There's way too many forums out there that are bloated with features noone uses and dies.
Himeuta's simplicity is one of its charm. Users didn't have to be bulldozed with bloated interface.


It might be interesting to keep auto update just to GCT if noone else cares, if there is a way to do it.
Again, I'm fighting a losing battle, but just wanted to throw my opinion out there, it will get lost in the whirlpool soon anyway.

Kagamin
04-26-2015, 07:23 PM
Does the AJAX threads include the top 15 stats on the index?

If not, then losing auto-update, but keeping that to track at least GCT changes wouldn't be horrible.

Saya
04-26-2015, 07:35 PM
Miki They're two separate modules. So no, it doesn't include it.

MagnAvaloN
04-26-2015, 07:37 PM
Up for more features instead of the AJAX thread, considering it is not much of use outside of GCT and it actually goes buggy or stops working at times that I ended up refreshing more. Also, that new notification system looks neat, kudos.

Leyana
04-27-2015, 12:35 AM
Honestly I don't really care for the AJAX threads. Though I understand that some people like it. Making it a sub feature would be a nice touch.

LostLogia4
04-27-2015, 05:22 AM
Kinda unrelated, but what's this one so-called sound manager script for? Why use the developer version instead of minimized one anyway?
http://www.himeuta.net/script/soundmanager2.js

(and yes, I was one of the person whose Net connection takes minutes to load this script)

soknife
04-27-2015, 11:45 AM
Due to our decisions regarding live chat on forum though, there will be no chatrooms for forumers.

When/how was this decision made? sorry if i missed an update somewhere.
Regardless, is even an IRC room out of the question? i just feel that a chat room would really liven things up when it comes to communities like this.