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  1. #1
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    Info on the new CV cutin system

    This is what we got from preliminary tests. Since this is a brand new system, and that the dev says they will continue updating it in the future. Data here is subjected to change. We will update when we got new info.

    Day cutin:

    AS or above is needed. Same as artillery spotting, the same setup can trigger multiple types of cutin as long as the setup meets the requirements. All CV/CVL can trigger this cutin.

    Types:
    Torp bomber/Dive bomber (estimated to give 115% post cap bonus)
    Torp bomber/Dive bomber/Fighter (estimated to give 125% post cap bonus)
    Torp bomber/Dive bomber/Dive bomber ((estimated to give 120% post cap bonus)

    This cutin cannot be triggered when required planes are shot down. Jet cannot be used as dive bomber for the cutin.

    Proficiency crit damage bonus:
    Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...HR8/edit#gid=0
    [Special thanks to ムウ-san for compiling the data]

    After the Oct 18 patch, crit damage bonus from proficiency will be counted when day CI is triggered. A couple of fact we know now about this bonus:

    1. The crit bonus stacks with CI modifier as a post cap modifier. The damage formula will look something like this:
    [post cap attack power]*CI modifier*crit modifier*proficiency crit modifier = final attack power

    2. The amount of crit damage bonus is different from normal attack. Instead of depending on the number max rank bomber, it is now a fixed value, and the only factor is whether the plane in the top slot participates in the CI.

    When top slot participate in CI, proficiency crit modifier = x1.25
    When top slot does not participate in CI, proficiency crit modifier = x1.106

    Noted that this is a test done with planes with 120 internal proficiency. We do not know the amount of bonus for planes with less than 120 internal proficiency.

    There is also an update of CI animation. When the top slot is participating in the CI, its banner will appear a moment earlier before the remaining banners. Alternatively, if the top slot is not participating in the CI, all banners will appear at the same time.

    Accuracy and crit rate:
    Please check out this test.

    Triggering rate:
    Factors that affect day CI triggering rate:
    1. Flagship position provides bonus triggering rate. (Source)

    2. It is highly likely that Saiun would increase the triggering rate for the ship it is equipped on. (source)

    3. It is likely that luck would increase triggering rate. (Source)


    Night Battle system:
    As we all know, there are some CV that can perform night battle attack before this patch, namely Graf, Vanilla Saratoga, Taiyou, and Ark Royal. Their night battle systems are a stand alone system from the night battle system introduced in the new patch, and has their own characteristics. However, by equipping CV(L) with Night Operation Aviation Personnel (NOAP in short), all CV(L) can activate the new night battle system. Saratoga MKII is an exception here as she is the only CV that does not need NOAP to activate this new system. Here are two tables that illustrate the characteristics of both the old and new night battle system:

    The original CV nb mode:


    The new CV nb mode:


    Damage formula:
    Pre cap attack power = (Ship firepower+Special plane's firepower+Special plane's torp+3 * ∑(no. of remaining night plane) + ∑(special plane modifier * sqrt(no. of remaining special plane)) + night contact bonus+ akashi bonus) * CI modifier

    Post cap attack power (if lower or equal to cap) = pre cap attack power * crit modifier * plane proficiency crit modifier

    Post cap attack power (if over cap)= (300 + sqrt (pre cap attack power - 300)) * crit modifier * plane proficiency crit modifier

    List of night plane: F6F-3N, F6F-5N, TBM-3D

    List of special plane: F6F-3N, F6F-5N, TBM-3D, Swordfish, Swordfish Mk.2 (skilled), Swordfish Mk.3 (skilled), Zero mod 62 (FB/Iwai)

    Formula for damage bonus from equipment:
    Special plane modifier = (3 + 1.5* if (night plane)) * (firepower + torp + bombing + ASW)/10

    List of special plane modifier:
    F6F-3N: 1.8
    F6F-5N: 2.25
    Swordfish: 2.7
    Swordfish Mk.2 (skilled): 4.2
    Swordfish Mk.3 (skilled): 6.6
    TBM-3D: 8.55
    Zero mod 62 (FB/Iwai): 2.1

    Cutin type:
    Night fighter/Night attacker: x1.2
    Night fighter/Night fighter/Night attacker: x1.25
    Night fighter/Night attacker/Swordfish: x1.18
    Night fighter/Night fighter/Swordfish: x1.18
    Night fighter/Swordfish/Swordfish: x1.18
    Night fighter/Night fighter/Iwai: x1.18
    Night fighter/Night attacker/Iwai: x1.18
    Night fighter/Swordfish/Iwai: x1.18
    Night fighter/night fighter/night fighter: x1.18


    Cutin triggering rate:
    To be updated

    Example:
    Saratoga Mk.2 Mod.2 with TBM-3D/Swordfish Mk.3/F6F-3N/Night Operation Aviation Personnel. Assuming no night scout/CI is triggered, no plane is lost, and that all bombers are fully ranked.

    Pre cap night attack power: 58+2+9+4+8+3* (37+19) +1.8* sqrt(19)+ 6.6* sqrt(24)+ 8.55* sqrt(37)=341

    Post cap night attack power: 300+ sqrt(341-300) = 306

    Post cap night attack power (crit): 306 *1.5 *1.3= 596




    Source: Courtesy to みるきぃさん, 木枕異羽-san, ほたる-san, ImoDer-san, KenWWK-san and other testers





    Edit note:
    19/9/2017: fixed table and added nb damage formula
    21/9/2017: fixed night CI modifier table
    25/10/2017: updated day CI crit bonus info
    14/11/2017: updated factors that affect day CI triggering rate


    Last edited by 211303; 11-13-2017 at 07:57 PM.
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  2. #2
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    So new meta is to have one of each bomber at least?



  3. #3
    Rear-Admiral Krad Hunter's Avatar
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    Well, I've always equiped my CV/L with 1 torp, 1 dive and 2 fighters so I guess I won't need to make any changes to make this work



    Married to Nagato on August 19, 2015

  4. #4
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    @firehawk12 We don't know if it is actually better yet. We can say it is not an upgrade on every side at least, as having less TB will definitely weaken your opening strike. Another problem is that since DB is an absolute requirement, your CV cannot attack installation with CI setup.


    There is also a speculation that CV CI does not take crit damage bonus from plane rank into calculation. Testers find that the crit damage of CI is lower than expected. (This is not confirmed yet).


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  5. #5
    Admiral NanashiYoukai's Avatar
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    I did the World 3 Boss quest today in 3-3 to test out the new cutin system. Certainly unscientific on its own as it's just the data from one player alone, although I did record all the runs if needed for analysis.

    The following characters were my test subjects -
    Lvl 54 Souryuu Kai (Flagship), Tenzan Murata, Type 97 Tomonaga x2, F6F-3N. Luck 12
    Lvl 140 Hiyou Kai, Tenzan Tomonaga, Type 97 Tomonaga, Suisei Egusa, Type 52 Iwai MAX. Luck 59
    Lvl 99 Saratoga Kai, Tenzan Murata, Type 97 Tomonaga, Type 99 Egusa, Type 53 Iwamoto MAX. Luck 35


    1. Both TB+Fighter and TB+DB+Fighter CI have a chance of being triggered if your CV has all three such planes. I'm not certain whether the trigger chances compete with each other, or are complimentary (for example in the case of BB APCI + DA artillery spotting).

    2. The plane cut-in system doesn't replace the previous system of CV crits. Souryuu with 3 TB who never did any plane CI was still regularly hitting for 300+ on a day shelling crit vs a CA/CL. On the other hand Hiyou or Sara's plane CI (both double and triple plane) would only occasionally hit for <80 or so damage against such ships which is quite disappointing.

    3. I'm not certain if luck has any effect on plane day CI chance but Hiyou never failed to CI even once in all the runs needed to clear the World 3 boss quest. Sara failed to CI only twice. On the other hand, I sent a brand new Kaga drop to 1-1 with her default planes (TB, DB, T21 fighter), and she failed to do a plane CI at the boss node. But that was only one instance.


    The questions I have to think about would be -

    Is there really any significant value in making use of the plane CI system if stacking torpedo bombers can still deal valuable airstrike/day shelling crits as before? (At least where day battles only are concerned - which would certainly be the case in a combined fleet event map where you would nearly never have a CV enter night battle)

    So what does luck have to do with CVs? (or does that have to do with the night shelling, which I didn't get the opportunity to test at all)


    Last edited by NanashiYoukai; 09-12-2017 at 07:30 PM.
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  6. #6
    Moderator Leyana's Avatar
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    A single 125% attack does not seem worth it.


    Last edited by Leyana; 09-13-2017 at 12:29 AM.

  7. #7
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    Maybe they buff dive bombers. lol



  8. #8
    Moderator Leyana's Avatar
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    @firehawk12 Nothing in the update about buffing DBs. I think this was their attempt to make DBs an option but still doesn't make it better than just stacking tbs. Will need to wait for more info to come out.



  9. #9
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 211303 View Post
    @firehawk12 We don't know if it is actually better yet. We can say it is not an upgrade on every side at least, as having less TB will definitely weaken your opening strike. Another problem is that since DB is an absolute requirement, your CV cannot attack installation with CI setup.


    There is also a speculation that CV CI does not take crit damage bonus from plane rank into calculation. Testers find that the crit damage of CI is lower than expected. (This is not confirmed yet).
    The part about installations is interesting and certainly a limitation for some maps. Frankly, I NEVER understood how dive bombers were unable to hit land based installations, but torp bombers could. Take THAT reality!

    I'm also curious on the trigger rates. I'm betting that's were luck stat is a factor (*pats Taihou on head*).

    As for the mixed plane comps in general. I do kind of like it though I'm not sure whether it needs to be a "CV CI") or just some bonus. :/ Anyway, TB + DB is a bit more realistic to me that you'd have better results with TB & DB simultaneous attacks (harder to defend) than just one plane type. As for fighters... Well, not sure why one CV can't cover the fighter sweep rather than have a fighter on each CV, but game is game. That certainly benefits CV with a couple large slots and a couple small slots since you'd be putting fighters in the small slots anyway. Do wonder about balance overall with this when it comes to CV(L/B). :/


    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  10. #10
    Moderator Leyana's Avatar
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    @goesto11 Don't forget that this now makes the T62 Iwai a pretty good plane to have around. The CI is not something you currently aim for but something nice to have around as an extra. So whenever you take the T62 Iwai to meet AS requirements, your CV now has some extra punch.



 

 

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