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  1. #11
    Vice-Admiral M.A.Mitscher's Avatar
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    @Mobius There is no tanking in WoWS. This isn't like an MMORPG where we have taunts that force NPCs to attack the "tank." People will shoot at what they deem is the most value for their attack and that means Cruisers.

    Cruisers can maneuver, but so what? It's not like you guys here can't hit a Cruiser when you're playing your BBs, right? That maneuvering doesn't mean anything when someone knows how to shoot. There is also the simple matter of that lucky shot. And when those shots land, the Cruiser lacks the HP, the armor, the citadel protection to save it.

    Come on man, how many times have you played a Cruiser, no matter how you played defensively, handled your range, handled your maneuvering, handled your angles... Despite all that, the BB still lands that mega salvo for big damage... Regardless of range.

    Life on a BB is fucking easy. It's what I've been playing more of these days compared to Cruisers. WG is also on a tangent of giving BBs perks like Cruiser Stealth on BBs these days. So why?



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  2. #12
    Vice-Admiral DLRevan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M.A.Mitscher View Post
    Come on man, how many times have you played a Cruiser, no matter how you played defensively, handled your range, handled your maneuvering, handled your angles... Despite all that, the BB still lands that mega salvo for big damage... Regardless of range.
    Almost never. Honestly I find it hard to take seriously this vein of thought. There are a few cruisers which I am not happy with in terms of defensive design, but for most of them, if I ever get deleted I always understand it was either my own fault, or the fault of a teammate I put my trust in.

    Even if that weren't true, I also do not see battleships as being these "easy" types of ships where your health points and armor means you can can make 'mistakes'. Taking any more hits than necessary is a mistake. The difference between a cruiser and battleship in that situation is the former usually dies quickly. the latter becomes muzzled and ineffectual. Battleships lasting longer in a game than a cruiser, and in turn cruisers over destroyers creates an false illusion that you are still contributing simply because its harder to kill you outright. After all you are still 'playing' the match.

    I am definitely not that great in cruisers, but because of that if I can avoid getting sledgehammered regularly I don't see why everyone else blows it out of proportion.


    Murakumo 17th June 2015
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  3. #13
    Admiral Keyan_TTK's Avatar
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    I mainly.... well, scratch that, mostly play Cruisers (I'm now at the part where Russian destroyers are cruisers without a Citadel, and Scharnhorst is a Cruiser with battleship hull and armour). I am playing very defensively and I sometimes get heavily damaged, even if seldom outright deleted. In most of the cases it's because of me misjudging the situation in some way (Can he fire at me? Will he? Did I account for all the enemies, and if not did I take sufficient measures to protect my vulnerable flanks? If not, can I dodge? and so on.. tl;dr: I'm a scrub, and always will be). Very seldomly did I dodge out of a full BB AP broadside to see this off-course AP shell (which would be waaay of the mark had I not dodged) hit me right into the citadel. This is the main reason why my Damage stats are so low by the way.

    Also, I don't think one type of ships to be easier to play over the other, you just need different sets of skills to enjoy or get the most of them (even if some overlap). My aim is bad (and being thwarted by RNG does not help), so not having to wait half a minute to try and snipe my target is better for my nerves.(this is also why I like gunbotes better over torpedobotes). My positioning leaves also something to be desired too, so not being in a slow and unmaneuverable barge helps.

    And I have issues over the BBs taking entire pages of the Cruiser's playbook (Stealth, Hydro, Radar, DefFire) even if I understand the rationale for doing so (Hydro on the German BBs help them push, Stealth lets the RN BBs heal), and most certainly enjoy (ab)using it when playing them.


    Last edited by Keyan_TTK; 11-12-2017 at 02:46 PM.

  4. #14
    Admiral Keyan_TTK's Avatar
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    The latest ST build gives Duke of York a Heal (back)! It replaces the Defensive Fire consumable.

    ST, British battleship Duke of York, tier VII

    Removed the "Defensive AA Fire" consumable. Added the "Repair Party" consumable with following stats: 28 seconds duration, 120 seconds cooldown, 2 charges (80 seconds cooldown, 3 charges for premium equipment).
    Changed stats of the "Damage Control Party" consumable: 15 seconds duration, 120 seconds cooldown (80 seconds cooldown for premium equipment).
    "Hydroacoustic Search" consumable's number of charges is decreased, its stats remain unchanged: 94 seconds duration, 4.2 km ship detection range, 2.97 km torpedo detection range, 180 seconds cooldown, 1 charge (120 seconds cooldown and 2 charges for premium equipment).
    Fire duration is increased from 30 to 60 seconds.
    Main battery reload time is increased from 25 to 29.5 seconds. Rudder shift time increased from 15 to 17.5 seconds. Sigma count is decreased from 2.05 to 1.8.

    These changes make Duke of York's gameplay closer to classic battleships, while the addition of "Repair Party" allows for more aggressive combat.
    DoY is now a proper Battleship and not a very heavily armoured and armed T7 Cruiser any more.



  5. #15
    Vice-Admiral M.A.Mitscher's Avatar
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    @Keyan_TTK

    DOY with those changes is still a far worse ship than KGV. Nelson is still there for a sharply contrasting BB. Hell, Hood is still there in my port. DOY does not fit in that set. If it's a campaign reward, sure I'll grab her because I complete them all.



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  6. #16
    Vice-Admiral Mobius's Avatar
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    LWM commented on the changes:

    For balance reasons, we can expect Duke of York to take a hit somewhere to mitigate the potency of her anti-aircraft firepower so that she doesn't feel immediately superior to King George V. Competitive? Sure. But not outright superior.
    The proposed Duke of York has:

    • a longer reload time than King George V (18% longer)
    • less effective range (no spotter aircraft)
    • better AA power (yet generally ineffective given that most kicks in at 2.5km -- Defensive Fire is what made it good previously)
    • slower rudder shift time
    • tier 7 cruiser hydro
    • one charge less charge of Repair Party

    I dunno about you, but I call a ten 356mm gun battleship with a 29.5s reload, buffed AA but horrible handling and a nerfed heal a tier 6 battleship -- not a tier 7. Seriously, she'd be an interesting tier 6 with this build. She's a joke at tier 7.





    Nagato 2015-03-22 / Mutsu 2015-03-22 / Hiei 2015-04-18 / Ooi 2015-05-30 / Musashi 2016-03-13 / Richelieu 2017-11-11 / Tatsuta 2018-01-18

  7. #17
    Vice-Admiral M.A.Mitscher's Avatar
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    @Mobius Tier VII RN BBs is a crowded field. KGV is amazing despite some that poor plating and poor AA. Nelson has quietly done extremely well for a Premium BB, tier for tier. Hood has good AA and armor. Except for Nelson, KGV & Hood are on the upper end of the speed scale. How do you beat KGV, Nelson, Hood in the same tier as an RN BB? Without breaking the game? Clearly WG struggled with this.



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  8. #18
    Vice-Admiral M.A.Mitscher's Avatar
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    LWM finalized her review of Duke of York. All you guys that whined about Repair Party got your wish. DoY had a lot of other things going for it to compensate for no Repair Party, now she is absolutely worse than KGV. A floating turd.



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  9. #19
    Vice-Admiral Mobius's Avatar
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    @M.A.Mitscher Yes, because there was clearly no middle ground between "no heal with gimmicks" and "signficantly worse KGV but with heal (like every other BBs, KGV itself included)". C'mon now.

    Also, have you considered that maybe, just maybe they decided to give DoY a heal after reviewing how she performed in the hands of STs and CCs and not just based on the community's reaction?





    Nagato 2015-03-22 / Mutsu 2015-03-22 / Hiei 2015-04-18 / Ooi 2015-05-30 / Musashi 2016-03-13 / Richelieu 2017-11-11 / Tatsuta 2018-01-18

  10. #20
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    Shame they decided to take so much fro. What she was shaping up to be away. An idea to make her more viable could have always just been a reduced efficiency on her already reduced charges heal.

    And got to say a lot of the complainers on her would have still had the victory over graf in their mind and thus expected positive changes as opposed to stuff being removed. A shame given how duke might have performed compared to what it seems well get now. But wouldn't blame them to be done with the ship so they didn't have to deal with more complaints on the other side.



 

 

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