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  1. #1
    Admiral NanashiYoukai's Avatar
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    Another Luckmod Help Thread

    Yes, it's yet another one of those threads. So, I've got another five Maruyu saved up, and I must spend them ASAP because of lack of fleet slots, so I can't afford to wait for the next event to see what would be of the most utility there, unfortunately. My last investment (Ayanami) has reached the point of diminishing returns, so I'm looking for the next character to spend my Maruyus on.

    I suppose I do have my eye on the next event, but truth be told it's not like it matters a huge deal since I'm confident my soon-to-be three year old fleet with equips from all Hard clears can already give whatever it is a good thrashing on Hard. So I guess I'm more interested in something that's more useful in the long run in general, rather than needing something to aid me immediately during the very next event (although that would be a bonus).

    My strategy where luckmodding is concerned is to focus on one ship at a time to get them to reliable TCI levels. However, my rate of Maruyu gain is extremely slow because I don't go out of my way to farm them during events, although I do min LSC when I've hardcapped resources. Here's what I'm considering, and what I've already got luckmodded - all luck is base unless stated otherwise, and no one is ringed except boatwaifu Hiyou. You can also assume I'm totally neutral towards any of the potential candidates and I don't really prefer one girl or the other, I'm just interested in game utility.


    Considering (Feel free to suggest if I have missed out any of the usual suspects):
    DD: Yuudachi, Kasumi, Shimakaze
    CL(T): Yura, Kiso
    CA: Myoukou, Prinz, Maya


    Already luckmodded
    DD: Ayanami [49] - designated to receive any DE modding
    CL: Abukuma [52] - the most usual of the usual suspects
    CLT: Kitakami [38] - my first Maruyu cake back when I was a noob
    CVL: Hiyou [59] - because waifu is more important than optimising


    Yes I'm aware this chart exists, but maybe it's a little outdated now. (before Yura K2 existed, also Maya AACI+TCI became a more common strategy).
    Any thoughts on what's the best choice for my next investment? Many thanks and I really appreciate any replies.


    KanDex First Completed 16 February 2016 // HQ Lvl 120! 9 March 2016 // 2nd Anniversary with Hiyou! 31 March 2017

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  2. #2
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    Well, among those it would definitely be Maya. I suppose you know how good luck modded Maya is, so instead of discussing why we should luck mod Maya, let's talk about why we shouldn't luck mod the other ships first.

    1. Yuudachi (and basically any other dd)
    You should eventually luckmod her to replace Yukikaze, but not before Maya. The reason is simply that the increase of DA Maya>TCI Maya is much higher than TCI Yukikaze>TCI Yuudachi. And it is not like you can stopping fielding Maya. It is either her or Akizuki class (which is even worse due to lack of damaage) against a map with enemy CV.

    2. Kiso
    Well, TCI Kiso is not bad, but the map has to allow you to bring 3 CLT in the first place. If you are not fielding all 3 CLT at the same time, you might as well use your dupe KTKM and Ooi over Kiso in other maps.

    3. Yura
    She is simply not for TCI. You will be better off luck modding your dupe ABKM if you have to luck mod her.

    4. Myoukou/Prinz
    Their problem is that they compete with CLT for slot in escort fleet. Since then, in any situation where you can field 2+ CLT, you will only have 1 slot for CA. In that case, and when the map has quite a lot of CV, that slot will be Maya's. Even when that map does not need AACI, a luckmodded Maya can still function as a normal CA. There is simply more things you can do with Maya than any other CA.

    Another thing is that both CA can work as TCI ship as they are now. Imagine this is a map you can field 1 CLT only (so both one of those CA and Maya have a slot), you can go with a 5 TCI setup with Myoukou at flagship+skilled lookout if you have luck modded Maya. Their base luck is high enough for TCI in flagship position. You will have to field one less TCI ship if you luck mod another CA instead, since Maya's base luck is way too low.

    If you need more persuasion, Maya is also a member of Kurita fleet (so as Myoukou, to be fair), and you are very, very likely going to use her next event, and in any other future events, until a more OP ship appear and take her place. Before that, Maya will be an essential part of your ultimate combined fleet, and it would be wise to upgrade her to the strongest possible.


    Last edited by 211303; 12-14-2017 at 08:31 PM.
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  3. #3
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @211303 Hopefully not against forum rules, but since I'm in a fairly similar situation thought I'd just add to the thread.

    Currently, have Kitakami (from the old days), Prinz Eugen and Ayanami luck modded. I need a CL, and yes, the obvious answer is ABKM K2, but is there perhaps any viable alternative if one isn't the biggest ABKM fan (which I'm not)? Jintsuu is the clearest answer, but then I do wonder about whether I should keep Jintsuu as my "go to NB DA" CL and thus have more flexibility with a separate NB TCI CL. Then again, I can get Jintsuu to 200+ NB firepower with improved torps leaving a valuable 3rd slot for say Type 98 night scout.

    There is still Maya K2 (and ultimately Yuudachi K2, etc. as well) to consider, but that still leaves the CL gap. I'm in the same situation with 5x Maruyu Kai to get off the roster. Going forward not sure how much Maruyu LSC I can do (and the RNG with that anyway) before next event given that (A) got tons of expensive improvement fodder to craft, and (B) have a feeling that next event is going to be much harder/larger than the last one. Who knows, maybe 7 maps (and really 8+ given all the unlocking/multiple gauges and such).

    TL:DR = So (A) stuck with ABKM or suffer consequences, (B) Jintsuu (other CL ???) a viable alternative, or (C) skip CL for now and go work on Maya K2. Note: Even if Maya K2 the answer for next luck mod project, I still would like feed back on CL alternatives for ABKM (if there is one).

    Thanks.


    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  4. #4
    Admiral NanashiYoukai's Avatar
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    @211303

    Thanks so much for your reply. All right, I will go with Maya. I had been hesitating about her due to sacrificing her fleet AA capability by stacking torps (I send her out with a nearly all-max-improved suite for maximum fleet shootdown), but I suppose if the boss is actually so difficult as to need an entire fleet of TCI then fleet AA is probably a minor concern in comparison. In short I understand the main reason for picking her is the ability to have one-of-a-kind strong AACI and night cap damage at the same time.

    As for the others, thank you very much for the explanations. I did bring up Yura and Kiso specifically as alternatives to the usual ABKM and KitaOoi dupes because although I do use dupes, I'm personally trying to cut down on it and put some investment into the other characters for their unique status as being other characters, in case it ever becomes relevant (e.g. routing/bonus damage for Kiso in this year's Spring event.)

    Also I do think it's a bit excessive to put investment into the same character multiple times for the purpose of optimisation (for the purposes of waifu though... I totally approve). I'm sorry if that wasn't clear enough from what I wrote (and what you might know of my playstyle). You already explained Kiso, but in addition to that I do know some people luck up Yura as a alternative to ABKM for two opening torp/TCI CLs or because they just don't like ABKM.

    I suppose I'll probably ask again after I have modded Maya but that will be far into the future and things would be much different. Myoukou and Prinz can be saved for later since they can be placed in flagship position for reasonably good CI chance and a luckmodded Maya would already be there (even if as a regular TCI rather than AACI+TCI). Perhaps Yuudachi for the DD night cap dmg role?



    @goesto11

    ABKM is preferable for luckmod so she can be given torps to boost her opening torpedo which is still way below day cap, with the strong night TCI being an additional benefit. To put it simply, not running with a luckmodded ABKM means a slightly weaker opening torp and a night attack (chance) with lesser potential maximum damage. I would not call Jintsuu a 'alternative' because there is really no alternative for the opening torpedo other than Yura, who is statistically weaker (but has the 'Not ABKM' flag set for those who absolutely dislike her for some reason).

    Of course, this only matters if you use ABKM at all. If you dislike her, just sortie her only as long as you need her (e.g. Shima routing), and otherwise don't use her and use a regular DA CL, or Yura for opening torps. Only do what you are willing to do. You will probably want one CL capable of hitting night cap eventually for use in tough combined fleet last boss battles, if you decided not to luck mod ABKM. For this Jintsuu is preferable based on stats alone since she can cap with 2 (upgraded) quints/sextuples and thus leave one space for a utility equipment, but to be honest based on what I've seen most people who dislike ABKM just luckmod their favourite CL.

    As to whether a non-ABKM CL or Maya is preferable, I can't really say myself (else I wouldn't have posted this thread in the first place). It does help you that you already have Prinz modded up, while my gap is with CAs, so I understand if Maya is a more obvious as a better pick for me.


    1 out of 0 members found this post helpful.
    Last edited by NanashiYoukai; 12-15-2017 at 06:36 AM.
    KanDex First Completed 16 February 2016 // HQ Lvl 120! 9 March 2016 // 2nd Anniversary with Hiyou! 31 March 2017

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  5. #5
    Admiral illyrin's Avatar
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    @goesto11 There's a good reason for luckmoding another CL besides ABKM (though admittedly, I'd suggest luckmodding ABKM first). ABKM has what I call a "midgetsub blackmail" setup - her midget sub is basically welded in place, leaving her only with two slots for you to play with (much like a CLT). Her stats are not spectacular if you're not bringing her for her opening torpedo, so you basically run a midget sub or you use another CL. If you're not talking about ABKM, Jintsu is still the best conventional CL.

    For instance, let's say you want to put some other ship in the flag position of an escort fleet for any number of good reasons and you want a searchlight carrier in the second slot to draw fire. This situation comes up pretty often. ABKM can't do this without being in some position of "torpedo - searchlight - midgetsub" or "gun - searchlight - midgetsub" setups, which is pretty much as bad as it gets for equipment setups. With a luckmodded Jintsu (for instance) you can still pull of a "torpedo - torpedo - searchlight" setup. Yes, you will give up the very nice "opening torpedo from a true CL" option that ABKM brings , but in return you'll have a ship with an effective NB setup at the boss node. Note: Some players will suggest something like "lol stick the searchlight on a DD" -- it's certainly an option if you're not running FCF (which you're likely not if you're packing your fleet with TCIs) and not all of your DDs are running TCI. I'd not suggest running a searchlight or a starshell on a TCI DD - the "good" DDs for TCI typically need triple torpedo setups to hit NB firepower cap.


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    Last edited by illyrin; 12-15-2017 at 09:21 AM.

  6. #6
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @NanashiYoukai: Yes - and I get that. It's utterly clear that ABKM is the THE luck-mod choice. The reason to use her is opening torp strike, and NB TCI load out just adds to that. Complete synergy. Hell, 99% of the time unless there's some special mechanic/historic bonus, ABKM K2 is THE "go-to" CL without any real alternative once luck modded.

    So, yeah I'm aware of all that. Question is what is the next best (or at least won't suffer too much game play penalty) option if one isn't a big ABKM fan and/or "only stats matter" type. Obviously, almost a given I'll have to use ABKM for some event map(s) given her ubiquitous utility (or suffer for it). Agree, you need about 150+ total NB firepower (I'd say 155+ since night contact isn't guaranteed). Not sure if I have a "true waifu" CL (I do like a number of them not named AKBM). Sendai and Yahagi are probably at the top when it comes to CL for me. Sendai is right at good enough with 156 total NB firepower. Yahagi (no K2 yet) falls a bit short at 149 (and who knows when K2 and what it will be like). Even if not my favorite CL, I like Jintsuu well enough so fine with luck modding her as she's the obvious next choice stat-wise.

    Thing is though, Jintsuu K2 is also by far (+12 points) the best NB DA CL so there's a potential opportunity cost with luck modding here. As you know, sometimes you'll need a good NB DA CL for one map and leave your NB TCI CL for final EO map. Here again, one more reason for ABKM luck mod. *SIGH* Sorry, but to borrow what someone else posted long ago, it feels like ABKM is being shoved down my throat. :< Anyway, so that's one potential reason not to pick Jintsuu. OTOH, stat-wise Jintsuu is definitely next-best choice, and yes, with good improved equipment you can reach NB TCI cap with only 2x Torps.

    That's why I'm struggling to find a clear course of action here even if don't go with ABKM. I guess I can go Sendai, and I would have fun with her NB dialog, but at what game play cost? Also, just watch. As soon as I luck mod Sendai (or even Jintsuu), we'll get a true ABKM alternative. Yeah, just "go luck mod that one", but not looking to see how many ships I can luck mod. Like to get what I need and be done with it. Enough to do as it is.

    That still leaves to luck mod Maya or not first (and yes, you do have a much clearer choice IMO). Eventually, need to get Maya (and Yuudachi) even if I have Prinz Eugen modded. So which one first? Rather not just flip a coin to decide.

    So... any final suggestions? Feel damned if I do and damned if I don't regardless of what I choose. :/

    Thanks.

    ----

    @illyrin: True, although THE entire reason to use ABKM is her the opening torp strike, and NB TCI set up just adds to that. Even w/o NB TCI, you can go OASW per above and you get a "free" decent enough opening torp strike. Fair enough on the searchlight, but usually there's some other ship you can stick that on (DD or CA(V)). With Yuudachi K2 luck modded or even Ayanami you can get very close if not at NB TCI cap with improved Sextuple Oxy + Quint Oxy + Searchlight (pluc Night Scout trigger for Ayanami). There's also just putting it on some random DD (e.g. OASW DD if you need one) since searchlight does increase targeting. However, yes, available slot is available slot on Jintsuu. See above on potential issue with Jintsuu. Maybe I'm making too much of that. Not sure.

    It's quite murky IMO and why I'm undecided. Even if I do pick a non-ABKM CL, that still leaves whether I should luck mod Maya K2 first (again, I do have Prinz Eugen luck modded).

    Any additional thoughts on the matter?

    Thanks.


    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  7. #7
    Admiral NanashiYoukai's Avatar
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    @goesto11

    Since it's come to this again, this may be 'bad' advice, but the philosophy I always follow in such situations is do what you want first, and then do what is considered optimal. This game is not, and hopefully never will be so difficult that the lack of a certain character and their capabilities makes the game unwinnable on Hard (although last E4 got dangerously close, may Z9 burn for all eternity). So, no, I do not see why you should feel damned by not picking ABKM, and I am saying this as a ABKM supporter, because plenty of vet TTKs hate her and ignore her too... points at the people who have been writing guides for Himeuta for eons... and they clear perfectly fine on Hard without her using a different luck-modded CL with no opening torp.

    With that being said, I also don't understand your insistence on preserving Jintsuu as DA. If you want to maximise damage, TCI is obviously the way to go except in case of installation bosses, in which case Ooyodo's 4th slot is more useful. In comparison, Jintsuu's night DA is 'only' 15 effective FP higher than the next highest (Kuma/Nagara), while the extra slot that could be used for some utility equipment by utilising Jintsuu as a 2-slot night cap TCI is far more valuable. You may say opportunity cost of losing your best night DA CL, I say opportunity cost of giving up 1 extra slot for utility equipment - especially stuff that could improve night CI trigger chance for your entire fleet against a boss where you desperately want your characters to do CI.


    Personally, if I was in your situation (to choose to luckmod a CL with both ABKM and Jintsuu banned, or Maya), I would pick Yura. Because sometimes an extra opening torpedo just makes life so much easier, and Yura doing ABKM's job of just launching an opening torpedo is extremely weak, but the only possible alternative. She still won't hit either day or night cap, but she will do a much better job as a opening torp CL stacking torps compared to her DA/ABKM with DA. And I follow the philosophy that the fewer enemies that are remaining, the more likely it is that your ultimate damage dealers will focus on the important targets. I pick Yura because I like my opening torp CLs.

    Otherwise, if you disagree with my choice of Yura, then luckmod Maya for the reasons 211303 explained already. The damage increase from converting Maya from DA to TCI is much higher than that gained by converting Jintsuu from DA to TCI, and if you are resolved to keep Jintsuu as DA then she will serve you well in a final boss battle all the same, while any CL can get close to the night cap with triple upgraded quints (although their luck will be lacking, with unmodded Sakawa the highest base luck), should it come down to that you desperately also must have a TCI CL.


    And I'm totally not saying this to bait a reply that Maya is definitely better. Ultimately, at the stage of fleet capability where you are, you can afford to do what you want to do and still be capable of defeating an event on Hard. With your fleet's capabilities, preserving the enjoyment you have in playing KanColle is far more important than 'optimising' everything because there's not much point in only unwillingly doing what you're being recommended and losing the desire to participate at all.


    KanDex First Completed 16 February 2016 // HQ Lvl 120! 9 March 2016 // 2nd Anniversary with Hiyou! 31 March 2017

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  8. #8
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @NanashiYoukai: Thanks for the detailed reply. I may not have been clear with my previous post so I'll try to explain better. It's a lot of grey area as I'm trying to balance between "RNG taming" and what I'd prefer to do in terms of ship options/personal preferences, etc. since part of game play enjoyment for me goes beyond stats only objectivity. That being said, I'm also not a "too easy event" guy and/or looking to increase difficulty. If I was, no problem.

    Re: "winnable": As you know, map/event clearing is all about "RNG taming" or "giving yourself best odds" - all the stuff we see with recommended best comps/load outs, etc. Even with ideal comps/load outs (incl. good ships & equipment), one can still be RNG trolled. Ex: Look at what happened to you and nwrtz last event. See it every event and experienced it myself. Go less than ideal and it can be a lot worse. So perhaps still "winnable" - if you have time/resources/sanity to keep bashing against RNG repeatedly, but not super interested in 50 or more sorties just for final kill. So yes, I do feel damned if I do and damned if I don't here. ABKM K2 is the clear luck-mod CL choice for a reason - right? Accordingly, there's a significant (IMO) cost here if I don't follow suit. I'm trying to find an acceptable compromise.

    Personally, I haven't seen ABKM being ignored at all. Also, I do appreciate walkthroughs/comps which mention alternatives (incl. if one doesn't have/use clones as well). Of course ABKM K2 should be noted appropriately, but nice to have additional info/comments if you don't have clones and/or xyz luck-modded. That helps a wider variety of players.

    Re: Jintsuu, I'm NOT "insisting" I won't luck mod her. Not the case at all. In fact she, was my initial thought -> "In comparison, Jintsuu's night DA is 'only' 15 effective FP higher than the next highest (Kuma/Nagara), while the extra slot that could be used for some utility equipment by utilising Jintsuu as a 2-slot night cap TCI is far more valuable..." That's what I'm trying to figure out since to me 15 points isn't small by any means - not in a game where player scrounge for 1 or 2 extra points.

    Appreciate the suggestion for Yura. As you note, it's ALL about Ko-hyoteki & opening torp strike which to me just reinforces my thoughts on ABKM. However, Yura's stats ain't good enough. Not even close. *sigh* REALLY would have been nice if Tama K2 could use Ko-hyoteki and in exchange for SPF (and WTF Autogyro). Problem solved. Again, just add SPF ability to Kinu. Not difficult and makes Kinu a lot more useful.

    So I guess if I don't want to capitulate and go ABKM, Jintsuu K2 is probably the consensus next best option. There's also going with a favorite like Sendai K2 (Yahagi falls a bit short and who knows when & how good K2 will be). Be more fun in terms of game play for me, but ain't helping myself out in terms of putting the odds in my favor/"RNG taming". :/

    As for Maya, yeah, IDK. Gotta be done at some point so it's a safe play in that regard. Still, the gaping hole in my NB TCI fleet is at CL. Good point about Sakawa as potentially an emergency NB TCI CL, but with no K2, can't hit cap. 10 more luck, but is that enough offset vs. even default ABKM?

    "Ultimately, at the stage of fleet capability where you are, you can afford to do what you want to do and still be capable of defeating an event on Hard."


    Yeah, I wonder about that. Seriously. Again, yes (or most likely at least) if I'm willing/able to do 50, 60, 80 - whatever # final kill sorties & SparkleColle, but I'm not up for that extreme. That's not fun for me at all. Furthermore, if I'm going to be perfectly honest here, lately I feel that I'm barely hanging on in terms fleet & equipment. Before I felt I was catching up, but certainly not the case anymore. True, I did clear Summer 2017 & Fall 2017 on Hard, but how much of that was luck? There IS luck/RNG in this game, but can't count on that (thus the whole "RNG taming" for strategy). That's why I'm struggling with this. Otherwise, sure, just to pick a favorite CL and be done with it.

    Again, do sincerely appreciate the response/advice. I'll figure out something. IDK. Go with RNG and flip a coin LOL.


    Last edited by goesto11; 12-22-2017 at 04:41 AM.
    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  9. #9
    Captain CaptainCoxwagle's Avatar
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    Why do you need that many TCI, and why not leave it to the destroyers since you have to bring at least 2 anyway? There is never a situation where you need to bring more then 3 TCI's, double attacks are valuable in clearing the path to the boss, as well as getting high value scratches. And every event, even on hard, only has one boss tough enough to warrant TCI's, and several events lately hasnt even needed them.

    Of course Abukuma only becomes good if she is luckmodded, she is pretty meh with a DA setup. Maya gives value, but do you really want the only AA cruzer to also be one of your heavy hitting TCI's, too many eggs in one basket for shiplocks I say.

    Otherwise there are plenty of boats that can easily hit or get close to night damage cap, choose any of them you like. As long as they hit the magical 300 number then you are not being suboptimal in anyway.


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  10. #10
    Marshal Admiral Emerald Acid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCoxwagle View Post
    There is never a situation where you need to bring more then 3 TCI's, double attacks are valuable in clearing the path to the boss, as well as getting high value scratches. And every event, even on hard, only has one boss tough enough to warrant TCI's, and several events lately hasnt even needed them.
    Uh, yeah.

    -Remembers how the Summer event on hard required almost every TCI ship of value across all maps. Remembers how E-4 alone took three to four TCI ships by itself.-


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