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  1. #1
    Admiral Keyan_TTK's Avatar
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    Ship Discussion: HMS Cossack

    Another British DD is coming!



    ST, British destroyer Cossack, tier VII

    Hit points - 14800, plating - 16-19 mm.
    Main battery - 3х2 120 mm. Firing range - 11.9 km. Maximum HE shell damage - 1700. Maximum AP shell damage - 2100. Reload time - 5 s. 180 degree turn time - 18 s. Maximum dispersion - 104 m. HE shell initial velocity - 808 m/s. AP shell initial velocity - 808 m/s. Sigma value - 2.0.
    Torpedo tubes - 1х4 533 mm. Maximum damage - 15867. Range - 8 km. Speed - 61 kt. Reload time - 96 s. Launcher 180 degree turn time - 7.2 s.
    Maximum speed - 36 kt. Turning circle radius - 610 m. Rudder shift time - 3.6 s. Surface detectability - 6.6 km. Air detectability - 3.9 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke - 2.4 km.

    Available consumables:
    Slot 1 - Damage Control Party
    Slot 2 - Smoke Generator
    Slot 3 - Engine Boost

    All stats are listed without crew and upgrade modifiers.
    Now, is it a Premium one, or the British DD line?



  2. #2
    Vice-Admiral Mobius's Avatar
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    Flamu's preview of the ship:


    WG has really been on a roll of bad premiums as of late.





    Nagato 2015-03-22 / Mutsu 2015-03-22 / Hiei 2015-04-18 / Ooi 2015-05-30 / Musashi 2016-03-13 / Richelieu 2017-11-11 / Tatsuta 2018-01-18

  3. #3
    Vice-Admiral DLRevan's Avatar
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    There's one thing I'd really like to take the opportunity to complain about, and that's why are CCs allows to review a ship that's early enough in development that it probably won't get pushed to live the way it is now. If it's bad, just for example, it serves no real purpose than to give people who've never played it reason to throw stones and demand changes.

    Which is fair because what else are players supposed to do when previews are posted? Get told it's a total shit bag then think hm I won't comment or think anything about it. What was the purpose of preview again?

    Nothing to do with this ship and it's current performance. Of course. Cough.


    Murakumo 17th June 2015
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Touch Fluffy Kumo


  4. #4
    Admiral Keyan_TTK's Avatar
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    Silly @DLRevan, how do you expect Flamu will keep his fanbase if he doesn't post videos of him ranting against bad players, bad ships, bad design, bad RNG,...?

    Also, I'd like to point out that if the CCs are forbidden to do previews, you'll have leaks, and people will get angry and demand changes, and so on. A total blackout isn't the solution either.
    Some CCs enjoy having the ship earlier so that they can try it at leisure, gather some data, compare it with other ships, and have a nice detailed review when the ship rolls out, and some others go for a quick viewsgrab.



  5. #5
    Vice-Admiral Mobius's Avatar
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    @Keyan_TTK I mean, is Flamu saying anything objectively wrong in his vid? If you feel like he's not doing the ship justice, you can point it out. And besides, he's not the only one critcizing the ship: Aerroon called it "abyssmal", Zoup called it a "hard pass" and "outperformed by every DD at its tier" and even LWM (I assume you were referring to her when you were talking about CCs that gather data) has already chimed in as well and she didn't exactly sound thrilled either:

    Cossack remains a Work in Progress, but I don't hold much hope for her gun situation getting better. Her gun fire arcs are abhorrent and there's not much that can be done to improve them. There physically isn't enough room to traverse them further. Her A turret is limited to a 230º firing arc and her Y turret has only a 240º fire arc.
    Maybe the reason why CCs are trashing it so quickly is because they have a lot of experience in the game and are able to spot what's wrong with a ship quite quickly. I mean, it's not like it would take a lot of time to realize that it has bad firing angles and is a bad torpedo boat in its current state. If (cough) WG change things on the ship, then we'll see how the CCs react.

    And while I do agree that Flamu can be pretty toxic on stream, in game chat, Reddit and Twitter, his reviews usually tend to be rather calm and argumented. He also has no problem recommending ships when he think they're good.


    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.



    Nagato 2015-03-22 / Mutsu 2015-03-22 / Hiei 2015-04-18 / Ooi 2015-05-30 / Musashi 2016-03-13 / Richelieu 2017-11-11 / Tatsuta 2018-01-18

  6. #6
    Vice-Admiral M.A.Mitscher's Avatar
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    @Mobius A ship a lot of guys trash, Mutsu, Flamu ended up loving it.



    "Haze Grey & Underway"
    - World of Warships Profile ; Warships.Today -

  7. #7
    Vice-Admiral DLRevan's Avatar
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    @Mobius wait I think you're misunderstanding. I'm not throwing stones at the CC's flamu or otherwise in turn.

    This is more a rant at WG. Let's just say, purely for example, that I totally agree that Cossack is a piece of shit. But the CC's don't get to talk about it. What is the loss really? In fact I think there would be less noise surrounding the balancing process. There've been changes made to ships in production i dont agree with that I think largely stems from the influence of CC's, backed by their viewership. They are not to blame, they have their own opinions, have been in fact invested to express that opinion and system has given them that voice. WG and their process is to blame.

    Actually like keyan says this is better than the older days of mindnumbing leaks, but I just feel like they've already solved that by presenting their own dev blog info. It doesn't make sense to dirty all the linen when you're going to wash them later anyway.

    By the way I have the same allowance to release streams of in-development stuff as the CC's, except I cannot commentate on the ships. So it's not like I think it's unfair they get to show the ships or anything. I just think none of us should, because it affects the development process, not to mention creates a bad impression if the ships are bad.


    Last edited by DLRevan; 01-24-2018 at 02:26 PM.
    Murakumo 17th June 2015
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    Touch Fluffy Kumo


  8. #8
    Vice-Admiral Mobius's Avatar
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    @DLRevan I think you're misunderstanding, because I was answering to Keyan and not you He seems to have a problem with some CCs' behaviour and seems to feel like they're rushing to give their opinion on the ship and for presenting their opinions in a way that might be too flaming for the sake of viewership. I simply argued that Flamu didn't say anything that was objectively wrong about the ship, that it was an opinion shared between multiple CCs and even one of the most thorough reviewer (LWM) didn't seem all that thrilled about the ship from what she's posted so far. To put it simply, I simply disagree with him that those CCs were going for "quick viewsgrab" as he put it.

    As far as your opinion is concerned, I don't really have a problem with it. I don't think I completely agree with it, as I think that having a second set of opinions besides the STs as well as feedback from the would be consumers can be a good thing. But I can see how it can be a not so positive thing at time from your perspective as a ST.
    I do agree that letting CCs produce content when WG know that they already have changes in the pipeline is quite counterproductive however.





    Nagato 2015-03-22 / Mutsu 2015-03-22 / Hiei 2015-04-18 / Ooi 2015-05-30 / Musashi 2016-03-13 / Richelieu 2017-11-11 / Tatsuta 2018-01-18

  9. #9
    Admiral Keyan_TTK's Avatar
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    @Mobius
    Calm down, you're kind of missing my point. Nowhere did I imply that Flamu was too hasty and that HMS Cossack was good. I was lampooning the fact that some CC's feel compelled to post new material as soon as they have a new toy. I wanted to add a Logan Paul reference but refrained from it because it was probably tasteless, not that relevant and people would miss it. My LWM allusion was an objection against WG shutting CCs out entirely and granting them the ship two days before final release.
    Yes, I used Flamu as a convenient target because, let's be honest, most of his audience isn't watching him for his tactical acumen, but is waiting for his inevitable meltdowns when he gets too salty (especially when his teammates thwart what would be an awesome game by parking broadside to a suspicious smoke cloud). Also, I'm aware that his Youtube channel is much more informative, and he even has started an interesting new series, in which he analyzes other players' submitted replays.

    As for the previews, while I enjoy having some insights into the development process of a new tree or a new premium ship and I do appreciate not having to rely on some obscure datamining or leaked footage of what may or may not be the latest build of a ship, which may or may not be driven by a complete potato, I do question the conclusions reached so early in a development cycle. Sure, CCs are way more experienced than I am, and are pointing obvious faults, but let's not jump to conclusions like you did by claiming that WG is on a bad roll of Premiums as of late. I mean, HMS Cossack is just out of Supertesting and barring some non-negotiable deadlines (looking at you, Graf Zeppelin) WG will rework the ship to make her more palatable, either by buffing her or propping her with gimmicks.
    And while we agree that Huang Bleh is indeed a piece of crap propped by her gimmicks, that Gascogne's layout is awful, and that we don't hold much hope for Aigle, does your "bad roll of premiums" include Roma, Musashi, T-61, and USS Kidd?
    You've probably noticed I've left HMS Duke of York out. It seems that WG's intent was to make Yorkie a super-cruiser. Sadly they either didn't convey their intention very well to the CCs, or said CCs didn't get it, but scathing previews were made, and the rest, as they say, is history.

    As for HMS Cossack itself, while the ship doesn't look promising and doesn't seem to be the British Ganja Master with normal torpedoes everyone was waiting for, let's wait and see how WG will improve her. I also don't really mind a Premium ship that starts by being underwhelming, it's easier to buff a ship than nerf what seems to be an OP one, putting off would-be sealclubbers.


    Last edited by Keyan_TTK; 01-24-2018 at 06:31 PM.

  10. #10
    Vice-Admiral Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyan_TTK View Post
    @Mobius
    Calm down, you're kind of missing my point.
    Apologies then. I don't really need to calm down though, since I'm not angry or anything, we're just discussing. Sorry if I seemed hostile or angry, that was absolutely not my intention

    Nowhere did I imply that Flamu was too hasty [...] I was lampooning the fact that some CC's feel compelled to post new material as soon as they have a new toy.
    To me, lampooning something implies a certain criticism of said thing, even if it's a roundabout way. So if you're lampooning CCs for pushing out content early, to me you're criticizing them for that behaviour to a certain extent. Sorry if I misunderstood your intentions with that.

    Yes, I used Flamu as a convenient target because, let's be honest, most of his audience isn't watching him for his tactical acumen, but is waiting for his inevitable meltdowns when he gets too salty (especially when his teammates thwart what would be an awesome game by parking broadside to a suspicious smoke cloud). Trying to convince me otherwise is like telling me you read Playboy for the articles.
    On his stream? Absolutely. That's why I said he can be quite toxic at times, and why I never (or almost never) watch it. I do believe that people that limit themselves to his youtube channel actually do so because of his opinion however.



    As far as jumping to conclusion about "bad roll of premiums", well... Opinions gonna opinions I guess. Looking at the recent premium releases, I think a lot of them have been problematic in one way or another. Keep in mind that I also consider premiums that performs far too well as bad premiums, simply because they are bad for the game as a whole. Nelson is rather OP; GZ is a dumpster fire; Giulio is OP as hell; Huang He is trash; Ashitaka is poor and DoY is a straight downgrade from the tech tree ship.

    Roma is indeed fine, but lot of people would argue that she didn't need a nerf to her gun accuracy but in other areas instead. Some people have argued that Musashi is OP, but at the same time they had limited options with what they could do with the ship, which is why I still question their decision to make it a T9. Kii is technically balanced, but I feel like it's a bit of a contradicting mess design wise. As for Kidd... Honestly I don't know. I haven't played the ship myself, I haven't fought it much, and depending on who you ask it can range from a good DD to overpowered, so I'm not going to judge this one.

    As for the upcoming ships, it's a bit hard to judge since we don't know yet if WG is going to change them or not. If they stay as they are, then I'd say T-61 is also a bad ship for the same reason as Giulio (or perhaps Gremy would be a better comparison) and Aigle is probably poor in the same way as Ashitaka is, but I'm still holding my judgement on that one. Gascogne will probably get a buff to her secondaries range, but it won't address the fundamental problems with the ship (and probably the rest of the French BB line).

    So yeah, I'd say they've been on a rather mediocre streak as of late, but that's just my personal opinion. That's not to say all of them were bad, Gallant was a pretty decent premium for instance. But I feel like WG has a bit of a hard time with balance, and more importantly they have a hard time taking fun into account while designing ships. Some ships might perfectly normal average gameplay stats (win rate, damage done, etc) but just be straight up not fun to play, and I don't feel like WG values that enough.


    Last edited by Mobius; 01-24-2018 at 08:53 PM.



    Nagato 2015-03-22 / Mutsu 2015-03-22 / Hiei 2015-04-18 / Ooi 2015-05-30 / Musashi 2016-03-13 / Richelieu 2017-11-11 / Tatsuta 2018-01-18

 

 

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