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  1. #11
    Marshal Admiral KotoNano's Avatar
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    @goesto11 As I said, that loadout is only for Naganami and Shimakaze, any other ship then it's not worth using. The thing with the 12.7cm D bonus is the first gun gives +4 firepower +3 torpedo as a bonus bonus, the second just makes it a +7 firepower +3 torpedo. It has a diminishing return in this sense, making getting one into the loadout much more important than having two. If you have two 12.7cm D I'd instead say put one on Naganami and one on Shimakaze.
    Upgrade FP wise, an unupgraded 12.7cm D actually beats out a max upgraded 10cm HA+FD right off the bat (+4 raw FP to +3.1 upgraded FP) for Naganami and at +1 for Shimakaze. It needs +4 for other Yuugumo class before it's FP gets tied, but it also lacks the radar boost so it's not as effective in general.

    Also er... Did anyone ever teach you about API priority? If you use a weaker DD AACI it overrides Maya's cut in chances as if both occur the DD one will activate and not maya's.


    2x 12.7cm D + surface radar is the literal best set for Naganami and Shimakaze... for support expeditions though
    as a nice little face though, Naganami with 2x 12.7cm D and surface radar has higher night battle power than Yuudachi with 2x 10cm HA+FD and a radar. the bonus is pretty significant when it adds up as it's an extra raw 10 night battle power. It's quite literally strapping am unupgraded 20.3 (3) onto of the two DD guns worth of damage. It's a pretty significant boost and people who try to play around that it's not because it only applies to one ship are annoying.

    @Murrue As do machine guns, but on a much higher scale. 2x infact. 90mm is also a high angle gun, and yamato-class doesn't really need two large firepower boosts so my example for that is literally the same reasoning. The fleet AA stat is in the long run insignificant on high angle guns. it's a placebo honestly.
    Why? Because a single bomber does the same damage as a fully equipped one. and how many planes shot down is still entirely RNG A good roll with no HA vs a bad roll with HA the non HA would actually shoot down more if you've using maya cut in + fighters. DD anti-air in the game is just as effective as it was IRL when it's not an akizuki-class.

    People upgrade 10cm HA+FD over everything else for three reasons.
    1) it's relatively cheap (34 screws and a handful of 10cm HA. 24 screws if you get your daily returns.)
    2) it has 3FP which is tied highest with every other DD gun
    3) It was easy enough to get in bulk
    The fact most people can easily get 8 of them to +10 with little effort, and that the only guns prior are the 12.7cm B or the more recent 12.7cm C who both tie it with firepower it's a clear choice what to use.
    The 10cm HA+FD is still the go-to for 99% of ships because the 12.7cm D only gives a noticable boost to Naganami and Shimakaze, the other Yuugumo class lack +1 from the gun and +1/+3 from the radar combo making it less attractive but in the long run it's no different to the 20.3(2) and 20.3(3) argument which to use. Both will perform more or less the same.

    but hey if we're sacking FP so hard for AA, akizuki guns aren't worth it. You should just equip your DD with three/four maxed out 25mm CD's instead they give a much higher fleet AA bonus.


    Last edited by KotoNano; 02-16-2018 at 02:25 PM.

    Will only return for Yuzuki.

  2. #12
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KotoNano View Post
    @[URL="http://himeuta.org/member.php?u=3893"]

    but hey if we're sacking FP so hard for AA, akizuki guns aren't worth it. You should just equip your DD with three/four maxed out 25mm CD's instead they give a much higher fleet AA bonus.
    This is not true. Machine gun only gives a very low fleet AA bonus, since their upgrade gives 0 fleet AA bonus. What machine gun does great is providing individual AA bonus, but not fleet AA bonus.

    To put it into perspective, a MAX 10cm hafd gives a fleet wide +2.9 shotdown rate in diamond formation, while a max 25mm conc gives +0.2.


    1 out of 0 members found this post helpful.
    The sexiest bridge ever made.

  3. #13
    Vice-Admiral Murrue's Avatar
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    @KotoNano FYI AA MG, including 25mm CD , have shit AA fleet stat which isn't raised with akashi upgrades whereas a ducky gun will get +9 at 9 stars.
    Also if you face a boss which can be killed by a DA DD you don't need that additional FP bonus so better bring more fleet AA for better passing rate on preboss nodes.
    And lastly type D are stupidly expensive to upgrade, even more after 6+ so you most likely won't have a 9 stars ones.



  4. #14
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    Agree on Naganami K2 & Shimakaze really only ones worth using Type D. Not disputing that. Just saying like a lot of things, load out is situational and what you're going for. I don't think it's necessarily one size fits all.

    As for AACI, Maya's top AACI is API 10, the generic DD load out I mentioned is API 5. 10 > 5 so Maya's would go first, right? So it's a weaker back up AACI with little cost in a lot of cases since one would often use 2x10cm HA+FD + wildcard on DD for NB DA load out.

    Fair point about possibility of using 12.7cm Mod D w/ Naganami or Shimakaze for support exped DD, but for the discussion, I was more focused on single or escort fleet work. And yeah, if you have 2x 12.7cm Mod D (rank or built a 2nd), then it is a stronger NB DA for those two when combined with surface radar, but you still have to factor in whether that NB DA is good enough for boss armor.

    ---
    @Murrue: Agree, boss armor is the issue and have to decide whether it's worth the extra NB power boost over what you get for fleet AA with 1-2 more 10cm HA+FD. And YES, those 12.7cm Type D are expensive and it's NOT all that simple/cheap to make another if you want a second and didn't get that from ranking.


    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  5. #15
    Marshal Admiral KotoNano's Avatar
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    @211303 Ah fair enough, the information on this is all over the place I'm no expert I got the fleet and individual AA mixed up and I'll admit that mistake. It's been a long time since I read up on the stuff. I was thinking it was the other way around, but these kind of mistakes happen. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
    It just seems somewhat odd that AA guns don't get an AA bonus on upgrading but secondary guns do.

    @goesto11 Wasn't it that the lower API goes first? Which is why it's bad to mix and match multiple AACI? It's been a long time since I read that, Maybe I was thinking of mixing the useless DD AACI with Akizuki's API. Yeah I really haven't look up AACI priority in a long time, mostly because I just take all three Akizuki class when I need AACI outside events.

    @Murrue I said 12.7cm D are more expensive to upgrade? Then again it's only 10 more screws and some 12.7cm C, more expensive but pretty reasonable to get if you play the game. There's way more expensive equipment that isn't worth the upgrades.
    You are ignoring things I've said to try and cause an argument I suppose because you saw someone else beat you to your only comeback but hey, you've always been an asshole so it's fine if you want to argue that the highest FP DD in the game isn't worth getting her there by equipping one 12.7cm D, to take a second 10cm HA+FD for extra AA that's your choice.


    1 out of 0 members found this post helpful.

    Will only return for Yuzuki.

  6. #16
    Commander Ferreae's Avatar
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    @KotoNano my head-canon is the 25mm machine guns just lack the range to effectively cover the rest of the fleet (Type 96 was effective at 1km and 'don't bother' at 2) , while the 10cm could fire shots that protect a ship from several kilo away

    Can see the upgrade for fleet AA on the guns on akashi-list.me


    EDIT:25MM machine gun. Don't want to picture a 25CM machine gun (or the barrel heat) :D



  7. #17
    Vice-Admiral Murrue's Avatar
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    @KotoNano Use your half rotten brain, check post time and you should understand I wrote my message at the same moment than the one above me. And being called a asshole by you is kinda ironic.


    0 out of 3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #18
    Marshal Admiral KotoNano's Avatar
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    @Ferreae But yeah with Musashi being "free" K2 if you clear the event on easy or above, I hope that helps with your choices on blueprints. You can even opt to not get Musashi and upgrade 6 ships with those blueprints instead, Musashi does have some nice features like the 5th equipment slot and the stock equipment but she really is an overkill ship. It's up to you though there, the recommendations stay the same for 3 to pick if you do go with Musashi though.



    Will only return for Yuzuki.

  9. #19
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @KotoNano: Per KC Wikia: If multiple ships fulfill AACI requirements, the one with the highest API number will be triggered first. That's why if you sortie Akizuki-class w/AACI, you don't want any other AACI except Maya's top AACI load out. Same goes for using Maya with say Isuzu AACI, Tatsuta AACI, etc. (not that you would since those are not very good and generally not worth it). Thing about "back up" DD AACI for Maya is that often there's no real opportunity cost. Gonna use the 2x10cm HA+FD (excl. possibly 12.7cm Mod D per above), so do you need that 3rd slot for something specific or not? If not, then can go with Air RADAR. That being said, may want that slot for say a searchlight or SONAR (e.g. Asashio K2D), etc.

    Really, I think it comes down to boss armor and how aggressive one wants to be in terms of maximizing NB firepower vs. take some extra AA (incl. fleet AA). Getting "dive bombed" a lot node after node (maybe 2+ aerial battles), then probably best to leave the 12.7cm Mod.D at home. Not so bad in the skies, then go for max NB DA output.

    @Ferreae: "OT" 10cm HA do have more range (as do say 5" DP guns or even Flak 88mm for that matter), but think of it in terms of zones. Larger guns have more range so 1st line of defense, what gets through hits 40mm types, then finally the last line with 20mm/12.7mm. Gotta factor in rate of fire as well. Much higher rate with 40mm and 20mm/12.7mm much higher than that. OTOH, got proximity shells for some guns which can offset lower rate of fire. As for heat, eh, not really a matter of mounts so much (e.g. 25mm vs. 25mm CD). All about rate of fire, shell velocity and whatever cooling there is.

    As for BP, just depends on your situation. If you have a number of BP ships left, then can go get Musashi K2 if you want and then use all the event BPs on other stuff. That being said, more flexibility to hold off and see who you might need in MO (and highly doubtful Musashi K2 needed there).


    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


 

 

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