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Thread: 46cm kai bonus?

  1. #1
    Marshal Admiral ofi123's Avatar
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    46cm kai bonus?

    Is there any bonus on Yamato class from 46cm kai? KC3kai doesn't show any fit bonus so I'm curious about the "This gun will show its true performance when utilized on Yamato-class Battleships." part. Or is the lack of penalty referring to it lol.



  2. #2
    Moderator Leyana's Avatar
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    It's a special accuracy bonus when combined with the 15.5cm Kai secondaries. Aka a meme.



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    Marshal Admiral ofi123's Avatar
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    @Leyana

    Given their firepower, if that bonus allows Yamato class to hit imps like DDs with machine guns then it's pretty good.



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    Moderator Leyana's Avatar
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    Why let your BBs focus on imps and gimp them for everything else?



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    Marshal Admiral ofi123's Avatar
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    @Leyana

    ? I mean with just 46 kai and 155 kai Yamato's FP is already 173. Unless it's for bosses that's enough FP for almost everything else.

    Though all that is IF the 46cm kai and 155 kai gives enough accuracy bonus to make Yamato class hit imps as accuractely as DDs with machine guns. Otherwise there's no usage at all.



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    Vice-Admiral DLRevan's Avatar
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    @ofi123 Personally, if the guns were more accessible, I'd start using the combination versus some of the late model abyssal we're encountering lately. They're high armor, high hp and high evasion, making it so our lighter ships can't kill them in one hit and BBs/CVs have a decent chance to miss. They wouldn't need to be as good as DD's with MGs vs imps for me.

    That being said, they cost almost as many screws as GFCS, and eat many more 46cm as fodder. As well as not requiring a special combo, and generally being more generous on overweight penalty on more ships.. More GFCS is still way better to mitigate this issue, depending how many Mk7s you got of course...


    Murakumo 17th June 2015
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  7. #7
    Marshal Admiral ofi123's Avatar
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    @DLRevan

    Hence I was wondering what the bonus was. GFCS is good, but the extra accuracy doesn't contribute much in allowing Yamato class to hit imps. However if this 46cm kai with 15.5 bonus allows Yamato class to hit imps like DDs with machine guns then it's viable, since Yamato class is already reaching the FP cap with just these guns.

    In addition, there's little incentive for me to make more GFCS with now all the new fit bonus from 41cms and there's 51cm for Yamato class. More than likely starting on another 16 inch modding project yields less benefits than modding other stuff with the cost and what I have currently.



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    Vice-Admiral DLRevan's Avatar
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    @ofi123 I don't know what the bonus is, though small or not I expect the final accuracy to be fairly high. Both 46cm Kai and 15.5cm Kai have decent base acc mods, and I guess here we're assuming we're going with Main gun/Secondary gun/spotter/AP shell or radar. Or include the radar if its Musashi K2. Then you get all the bonuses for daytime spotting CI and AP shell use, with the bonuses in question generally higher when secondary gun is used. And to that we can add this unknown Yamato class bonus.

    Yamato Kai gets 186( I think?) base pre-capped FP in parallel, single fleet and a Type 91 shell, which is over the day cap. To that you can add the usual spotting and AP shell bonuses where applicable.

    It all sounds somewhat decent, but I haven't seen data going in depth into how imp evasion works, nor have I seen anything on this combo vs them. I haven't seen data that even imply the evasion bonus they get can be overcome by "normal" accuracy bonuses such as this, rather than specialized anti-imp setups like with MGs. Secondaries themselves do count as such specialized means to improve large ship accuracy versus imps in that regard apparently, but not by much.

    So I guess I'm saying...who knows. Sorry.


    Murakumo 17th June 2015
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  9. #9
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    @ofi123 @DLRevan

    I don't think anyone has specifically tested the fit bonus of 46cm kai on Musashi yet, but there is this test of Musashi k2 with 46cm kai + 15.5 cm kai:



    The accuracy increase is very significant, but since there isn't a control, we do not know how much of the increase is contributed by 46cm kai alone.

    We also know that 15.5 kai will provide a large accuracy increase on Yamato kai, according to this test:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...atU/edit#gid=0


    As far as whether secondary gun is useful on BB, the main problem is not about the fp, but that secondary gun changes the types of artillery spotting they can trigger. 2 main+1 ap shell+recon is the essential equipment on any BB because those are the minimum requirement for the x1.5 CI. Artillery spotting modifier belongs to post-cap bonus, so it will benefit your ship no matter if their fp reaches cap or not. With 4 slots already occupied, there is simply no place left for a secondary gun. Another problem is that 2 main + 1 secondary triggers mixed CI, rather than the more favorable DA at night.

    However, for Musashi k2 in combined fleet main fleet, a main+main+15.5+ap shell+recon build will be possible for the same reason as main+main+ap shell+recon+wildcard+10cm in RE, which I have covered in this post:

    http://himeuta.org/showthread.php?13...=1#post1225948

    Of cos, in this case Musashi will not have the slot for a radar, so the x1.2 CI and AACI will not be available. Comparing the damage of this setup to the normal 2 main+1 ap+1 recon setup:

    • the x1.5 will increase by 7% due to the extra ap shell bonus.
    • x1.3 CI's triggering rate should be roughly equal to DA in the normal setup, and such a CI will outperform DA when enemy's armor is roughly above 210 armor.
    • x1.1 CI+DA's triggering of this new setup should be roughly equal to normal attack in the normal setup, and CI is obviously better than normal attack.


    Overall accuracy should also increase a lot due to the 15.5's bonus and CI's high accuracy.


    So all in all, 15.5 kai should have its use on Musashi k2, but all of the following criteria needs to be met:

    1. A slow combined fleet
    2. Enemy has very high armor (210+)
    3. You do not need the extra slot for fighter power


    Last edited by 211303; 06-30-2018 at 09:54 AM.
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  10. #10
    Vice-Admiral DLRevan's Avatar
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    @211303 I accept that the main reason we want a double main gun setup is to open up for the usual main gun AP shell CI, but what I was wondering is if there's a case to be made for Yamato to mount the secondary AP shell CI (1.3x mod) if accuracy is more important for whatever reason. I doubt I would craft more than one of these 15.5cm kais, and I'd move them between the two sisters as needed.


    Murakumo 17th June 2015
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