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  1. #151
    Admiral NanashiYoukai's Avatar
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    @goesto11

    For my snarky comment about STF that was for Part 3 LD specifically - as I have admitted I was screwing around for most of that. In my opinion, while both fleets can clear Part 3, CTF is preferable since while pass rate might be worse due to the more challenging nodes and needing node support, once you reach the boss your entire main fleet composed of capital ships can unload on the 6 himes with the bonus gimmick damage, whereas STF only has 2BB as reliable damage dealers, the rest have trouble killing anything unless they get a crit in a good confrontation. In short, for Part 3 LD, CTF = lower pass rate, but less tries needed at boss battle to win. STF = easier nodes (assuming 1LB to sub hime), but more challenging boss battle. STF is obviously preferable for both chipping and post-clear farming due to the better pass rate, and the slightly weaker boss node (4 rather than 6 hime) means that having lower firepower is less of a issue.


    Ok, for STF and CTF Part 2, simply put there is no consensus because both are similarly viable with adequate preparation. If there was a method that was proven to be obviously more reliable and more effective, I think we would all have not hesitated to recommend it straight away, but ultimately both methods are extremely luck dependent, some people can clear in a couple of tries, others will struggle for ten-twenty runs. Part of the issue also is that there hasn't been much testing of CTF for Part 2 in Hard, there are very few reports (there is mine, but it's pretty much invalid since I lucked first try and can't actually describe the circumstances of playing through it without larger sample sizes). I feel this is really one of the things you have to decide for yourself since so much depends on luck and your willingness to keep doing runs, sparkles, etc until you get 'the run'.


    (To be honest, if I had not had my brain fixed on somehow needing to get a subtank to survive node P, I might have just gone for STF 2BB 2CA 2CVL / AV CL 2DD CLT CA with no subtank. Trying to get a subtank to survive in STF is putting a square peg into a round hole - you're trying to squeeze the game into giving you a result that the node has been expressly designed to deny you. My Part 2 CTF was accomplished with a dupe Richelieu for routing, but apart from her and a dupe CLT, the rest were all first-teamers. It's not as second-string as it might seem despite locking my entire first team to STF already.)


    For the totally paranoid about whether STF or CTF is better, I have written a proposal for a ship distribution that would allow Part 2 to be solved with both STF or CTF in the ship locking thread, but I haven't received any comments (and obviously, I can't test it myself). It might be weaker than concentrating all force in STF or CTF, but it would allow easy changing of strategy if the player feels like it. Also, it allows for chipping with STF (which is much cheaper), and doing the finisher with CTF.


    For your [Edit], the answer is yes, if you are on part 2 but form a CTF, they will be tagged blue with Force H, likewise for the unlocks or Part 3, if you form CTF or STF, any untagged ships will be tagged accordingly. You need a fleet with only one tag allowed (of either colour) to sortie on the map.


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  2. #152
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    @goesto11

    As Nanashi said, there isn't a clear conclusion as to which comp is better for p2. CTF has higher passing rate (sub in main fleet that doesn't attack first, no sub loli), chip faster (8 guaranteed hit at boss per run), while would gerenally leave healthier enemy escort before entering night battle, subject very heavy AA fire which leads to unstable performance and cost more. STF, on the other hand, cost less per run and would damage the escort installation more reliably, but the passing rate of the sub tank will be lower and the boss would have more health before entering night battle instead. You simply face different kinds of RNG in different route. I would say though, in terms of performance, CTF has both higher upper limit and lower lower limit.

    For historical, the 6 euro (4 germen/french) requirement is the most important one to meet. P3 STF euro requirement is the second most important, but meeting it would only allow you to slightly increase firepower and passing rate, while also facilitate post clear farming. P1/3 CTF requirement only helps you skip an air raid node, so that could be ignored for the most part unless you have met the first two requirments already.

    Since then, I would recommend you to build your p2 fleet first, picking one route and stick with it. The reason is that you only have limited good Germen/French ship. Both fleet will be weak if you decided to spread them out between two fleets. After building the p2 fleet, use the remaining ship to build your p1/3 fleet.

    - - - Updated - - -
    @velocius When I say it is goddess dependant, what I meant is that the passing rate with sub tank will not be high. This can be migitated by using sparkled node support and sprakled fleet. The use of goddess is not compulsory, but would only speed up the process. In fact, most people using this tactics didn't use any emergency repairs at all.


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  3. #153
    Newly Registered IronWarrior's Avatar
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    Just setting up LBAS.

    Do you think it's better to have the best bombers with the highest AA as the first airbase or to have the weakest bombers first and have the strongest bombers as the third LBAS, my idea is that the first two waves should had damaged the enemies fighters first, allowing the third base to do the most damage?

    Second question, is it better to use maxed out Type 0 Models 21's Skilled or Land based Fighters/Interceptors as part of the LBAS strike?


    Last edited by IronWarrior; Yesterday at 09:06 PM.

  4. #154
    Vice-Admiral Kuropo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronWarrior View Post
    Just setting up LBAS.

    Do you think it's better to have the best bombers with the highest AA as the first airbase or to have the weakest bombers first and have the strongest bombers as the third LBAS, my idea is that the first two waves should had damaged the enemies fighters first, allowing the third base to do the most damage?

    Second question, is it better to use maxed out Type 0 Models 21's Skilled or Land based Fighters/Interceptors as part of the LBAS strike?
    Best fighters/interceptors and weakest bombers first.

    Type 0 Model 21s are some of the weakest fighters to send in LBAS. I do not have any info on your roster, but I will provide you with a screenshot of my spreadsheet below which you can refer to.



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  5. #155
    Newly Registered IronWarrior's Avatar
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    Thank you for the answer!

    Well event cleared!



    Last edited by IronWarrior; Today at 01:52 AM.

  6. #156
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @NanashiYoukai: Thanks. My plan for Part 3 is STF for "chipping" given higher pass rate to boss, then do boss final kill debuff, then use CTF for final kill/clear event. That seems to be the highest percentage combo from what I can tell.

    As for Part 2... was hoping one was more clearly the better way go to, but seems devs did a good job in terms of making STF or CTF equally viable.

    => "...but ultimately both methods are extremely luck dependent"

    Yeah, welcome to your typical final EO map on Hard. :/

    => "I feel this is really one of the things you have to decide for yourself since so much depends on luck and your willingness to keep doing runs, sparkles, etc until you get 'the run'."

    Fair enough. I have some tolerance for runs, but that's subjective. The issue with me, as you may recall, is sparkling. Hate it. Last time I did full sparkle with combined fleet was Summer 2017 and that totally burned me out on this game. Ended up taking a semi-break for a while (just minimal stuff daily). Just not up for that anymore. I could go Med. of course, but I REALLY want that Ju 87C Kai Ni (w/ KMX/Skilled). That being said, 40+ sorties just clear Part 2 isn't exactly palatable either. May very well not take that much, but you get the idea. Anyway, does seem damned if I do, damned if I don't regardless w/ sparkling. Certainly will have to for CTF escort (not sure about Part 1 & Part 3 LD), and still probably some at least with STF escort as well. Meh.

    Still wondering about synergy. I'm starting to think STF for Part 2 now given 2 of 3 luck mods are Ayanami and Prinz Eugen (so better NB TCI trigger). OTOH, not sure how going STF will impact Parts 1 & 3 since many best ships locked to Purple. Part 3, including LD after debuff, seems relatively easy(?) from what I read. Part 1 doesn't seem relatively difficult either. It's Part 2 that's the sticking point for most.

    => "To be honest, if I had not had my brain fixed on somehow needing to get a subtank to survive node P, I might have just gone for STF 2BB 2CA 2CVL / AV CL 2DD CLT CA with no subtank. Trying to get a subtank to survive in STF is putting a square peg into a round hole - you're trying to squeeze the game into giving you a result that the node has been expressly designed to deny you."

    Great, that's quite helpful! Thanks. Have read about sub-tank issues, though I thought SSV was also to aid with getting airpower with STF (i.e. 2x SPF on SSV). Rather than 2x CA, what about a CAV in place of a CA (and SSV)? Go 2x main + SFP, main + 2x SPF + T3, or 2x main + SPF + T3 (depends upon my total airpower). Won't have art spotting on CAV, but will get the air power back forgoing SSV.

    Thanks. Appreciate it.

    ----

    => "You simply face different kinds of RNG in different route. I would say though, in terms of performance, CTF has both higher upper limit and lower lower limit."

    That's quite helpful. Normally, I'm MUCH more on board with STF because escort doesn't get hit like it does with CTF along the way. OTOH, well, getting to the boss node and needing the stars to align for final kill can be quite frustrating. So yeah, pick your poison - get to the boss more often, but lower clean kill, or get to boss, but more RNG for a clean kill. Starting to lean towards STF as noted above.

    Few questions if you don't mind:

    (1) 99.99% sure this is the case, but the LAST thing I want is to sink a ship! So any confirm that escort flashhip is still "unsinkable"? Thanks.

    (2) Per above, any thoughts on fleet synergy with using CTF vs. STF for Part 2 and impact on Parts 1 & 3? Again, plan for Part 3 is STF for chipping and CTF for final kill.

    (3) AO with Part 2 STF: Is the Heavy STF comp advised/preferable, or go with "Optimized" STF. CTF seems to require AO for Part 2, but for STF, thinking "Optimized" is better and thus no AO.

    (4) From your guide, assuming you still favor SSV with 2xSPF w/ STF for Part 2 LD over sticking with Kumano and say main + T3 + 2x SPF (or some combination thereof). Get sub tank idea, and I can put Kumano back if I want, but curious as to your thoughts on this.

    Thanks again for the help.

    - - - Updated - - -
    @IronWarrior: Congrats!

    - - - Updated - - -
    @Kuropo: Thanks for the chart.


    Last edited by goesto11; Today at 05:42 AM.
    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


 

 

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