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  1. #1
    Commander F50Grunt's Avatar
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    Questions about duplicates

    Which duplicates should have the highest priority? It seems like Abukuma and Kitakami/Ooi are obvious answers but I know there are more. I feel that despite my almost complete lack of interest in levelling multiple copies of the same ships, this has sort of become an unfortunate reality of the game now that there are like 5 tags in every event now.

    I didn't see a guide specifically mentioning the topic, but I've had a habit of missing terribly obvious things lately so if there is one please point me toward it.



  2. #2
    Admiral NanashiYoukai's Avatar
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    @F50Grunt

    Consider this with a bit of 'do as I say, not as I do', since I am a blatant abuser of dupes, but you don't need dupes to play the game, period. If, in your opinion, it's not fun to level dupes, then don't.

    Regarding event locking, waiting a week or two for most of the ideal compositions to be spaded out helps with planning fleet compositions so you can allocate ships most effectively and understand areas where you can afford to cut back and areas where you may want to concentrate force. Technically you don't even need dupes to frontline (just look at 211), but to an extent you also need a degree of caution and knowledge of the game and of your ships' capabilities in order to rush in with barely any foreknowledge.


    With that being said, yes, it is undeniable that having dupes of strong ships and those with unique capabilities makes completing events easier. You got it that being able to stick a strong CLT in any formation which can take them (a dupe KitaOoi being better than an unmodded first-team Kiso no matter what) will ease map completion. ABKM is a little more doubtful since she really needs to equip two torps in order for her torpedo attacks and night battle damage to be reliable, a double attack-equipped ABKM has weak torps and will only be able to do significant damage against boss units with weak armour, but in situations where every attack at all, regardless of strength, is valuable, then it makes sense to throw a clone of her in. Other ships with strong and unique abilities worth having are Maya AACI, CAVs (especially K2s for strength, since they can always substitute for CAs except in situations where they specifically affect routing), and strong CVs and BBs (no need to use inferior substitutes except for historical routing/damage).

    But I repeat, again, these are not necessary at all, especially so if you don't find it fun to spend XP raising a dupe. Wise allocation of resources is more effective, and perhaps in my opinion more satisfying, than bruteforcing with copies of the statistically best units in the game (and this is an opinion - there are actually people out there who make it a point only to have copies of the strongest units in the game and ignore/scrap the statistically weak ones). If there is anything I may suggest to someone who would like to have some dupes but feels spending XP on them is wasteful, consider how certain units come with unique and valuable equipment that you could do with more copies of and how copies of such units may need to be farmed for those equips (e.g. Quints for CLT, Daihatsu for ABKM K2, and others like Dragons for their planes and Mikuma for 20.3cm(3)), and consider raising the dupe as part of the process of acquiring a new equipment which can make other units in your fleet more effective if you do choose not to make use of the dupe ship, while the dupe ship does exist hanging around in your base in the occasion you decide to use it to make event clearing easier.

    All the best and don't let others judge how you choose to play and enjoy the game.


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  3. #3
    Marshal Admiral ofi123's Avatar
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    @F50Grunt

    Just my personal opinion here as someone with alternate forms dupes and hard mode event challenger:

    No duplicate is needed for any event if you wait 1 week post full event release. Especially so if you do not go on full hard mode for events.
    Abukuma isn't as crucial now with the addition of Yura, unless you luck mod the dups for TCI since night DA Abukuma is not effective for big damage. Dup CLTs may be useful for easier clearing, but personally I have the choice to not even use all 3 in recent events due to routing and NB CVLs.
    Having alternate k2 DD dupe may be useful especially for anti-installation DDs, though still not essential if you wait 1 week+ post full event release.
    Kumano/Suzuya k2 duping for both CAV/CVL forms are not necessary. tbh I think getting dupe Zuihou k2 is better than getting dupe Kumano/Suzuya for CVL for effectiveness, though they are still considerable if you want to Fast Light Attack Carrier trait.
    The best (as in most useful) dupe in my fleet is Saratoga. Still not necessary but her alt forms serves very different uses. Night CV is more often used than CVB since I have 3 other CVBs. But she's literally the costliest considerable dupe due to her being from LSC. (not counting Musashi since dupe sushi k2 is somewhat questionable)

    TL;DR Dupes are not necessary even for full hard event clearing if you wait 1 week post full event release.



  4. #4
    Commander F50Grunt's Avatar
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    Hmm, it's entirely possible that my biggest problem is more to do with not having farmed enough screws and Maruyus (and sub-optimal usage of the ones I've gotten). Evem so. I know I need more quint torpedoes since I used mine to make the sextuple launcher. I suppose I'll probably end up with a couple duplicates but I won't worry as much about it as I thought I was going to.

    This mostly stemmed from having a Zara drop while farming for Kishinami, and being like "should I keep her?" That and I would like to go back to doing events hard all the way through, though I haven't done that since Spring 2015, apparently... It's entirely possible that I've been recovering from Summer 2015 for the last 3 years, I remember it being that bad.

    Either way, thanks for the advice.



  5. #5
    Vice-Admiral Kuropo's Avatar
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    @NanashiYoukai and @ofi123 have told you that duplicates are absolutely not necessary in this game. Although I firmly agree with them, I wish to elaborate on this statement.

    First, even if you cannot wait for a week after the event has started, you can still "easily" manage without any duplicates at all. Generally, the theme of the events is largely based on historical battles. This allows for people to have an idea, or make a guess, of what ships are "historical" (for routing and/or bonus damage), so they may be saved for those maps.

    Like the people above me, I have cleared all of the events on Hard difficulty as well. I always try to start clearing on the first day, if possible, and otherwise the day after. It sometimes so happens that I have locked some "historical" or stronger ships in a map previous from where they are needed. For example, in the current event, I have locked every single Italian surface ship to E-4 whereas I would have wanted to sortie Pola in E-5 instead. Also, I had all Asashio Kai Nis locked in E-2 and E-3, and therefore none of them available for E-4. This brings me to the next point I want to make.

    Second, although you may have made some mistakes in locking your ships to certain other maps, there are always alternatives, albeit subpar ones. This may be in the form of alternative routing rules, alternative routing, weaker ships etc. Bringing it back to my examples, instead of Pola, I sortied Z3 to E-5 instead. And instead of an Asashio-class Kai Ni, I sortied Fumizuki Kai Ni with the anti-installation equipment. It all worked out just fine in the end.

    What is important here, if you do not intend on leveling duplicates, is to have a wide roster of adequately leveled ships instead. I have all ships of all types, except for DDs, leveled to level 99. Therefore, for me, there is always a good/decent alternative. Abukuma Kai Ni may be the strongest TCI CL, but Sakawa is actually a decent substitute for her, albeit without the opening torpedo. CLTs may be powerful in general, they may still be substituted by a TCI DD or a CA in the escort fleet.

    These points are just common sense, but I hope you have been reassured at least. I just wanted to share with you my experience. Once again, if you do not fancy duplicates, you have to level alternatives instead. One way or another, to be prepared for the locking mechanism, you need to have a large roster of ships (duplicates or not).


    PS. I do have duplicates, but only "special cases", mainly Kumano and Suzuya Kai Nis (CAV and CVL, though the CVLs are less useful), and Yuu-chan and Ro-chan (I wanted to have both of them, instead of a second FaT torpedo). I do not bother with the CV and CVBs (Shoukaku and Zuikaku) because CVBs are never actually required for routing and there are plenty other CVs. And as mentioned before, CLTs are never really necessary though very powerful.


    Last edited by Kuropo; 09-30-2018 at 02:49 AM.

  6. #6
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @F50Grunt: My thoughts FWIW. Are duplicates required or necessary? No. Certainly not literally, especially if you do lag and wait for comps to come out. I'd think they are quite important for vanguard players exploring maps, but no experience on that. I also absolutely agree with others that working on entire roster and having a broad range of ships is of primary focus.

    That being said... are clones of certain ships helpful? Obviously. Why else do people have duplicates. Personally, I usually try not to use duplicates though I do have a few like Kuropo (e.g. Ro-500 & U-511, both versions of Kumano K2 & Suzuya K2, etc.). Full disclosure, I have used all 4 Kumano & Suzuya K2 in an event. Won't lie, it was quite helpful. OTOH, I had a duplicate Prinz Eugen and Richelieu which I just leveled for equipment and scrapped. May very well have been nice to have for E-5, but again, personally, I generally avoid using clones so scrapped them.

    Stats are stats and some ships are best in class. Best NB DA CL is easily Jintsuu. She's also a good luck mod target. Then there is Abukuma K2. Very useful and definitely a luck mod target (many would put as 1st choice for CL or even luck mod entirely and they have a point). Of course it all depends on the event, but there was a recent event where ABKM K2 would be the 1st choice of CL on 3 different maps - more so if luck modded. Yura K2 can be used, but she's a "poor mans" ABKM K2. Again, stats are stats.

    CLT usefulness in events isn't what it once was, but there are events where having a Kitakami (1st choice) duplicate and maybe Ooi as well help. I like Kiso, but she's not as powerful as Ooi K2 or Kitakami K2. Is what it is (if it were up to me, I'd increase Kiso K2 stats a bit and close the gap). With enough luck fodder, a duplicate Yuudachi K2 is definitely a benefit based upon stats. With high end improved torps, Poi K2 can hit NB Cap with 2x torps freeing up that 3rd slot. Clone Ayanami gives you another high end NB TCI DD. While quite as powerful as Poi, still powerful NB DD and with much higher base luck, easier to luck mod. Duplicate Yukikaze can help. Not up to Poi K2 or Ayanami K2 NB power standards, but can hit or get very close to cap and has all the luck you need built in. There's another good NB TCI DD for you. Have a few Akizuki-class DD now, but clone Maya K2 can prove useful. You get the idea.

    Then we get to historic routing and special damage bonuses. Again, duplicates can make things easier with that. Can't remember the exact event, but there was one where people were running Prinz Eugen #1 in main and Prinz Eugen #2 in escort because of special damage bonus. Necessary/required to clear? Nope. Make it easier? Yep. Having Euro duplicates for E-5 would certainly help out.

    Ultimately, it's up to you. I'm certainly not saying you must or even should build a clone navy. Furthermore, I'm not suggesting by any means that one keeps a duplicate over a different unique ship. I'd have Yura and ABKM before 2x ABKM and no Yura for example. Also, as mentioned, there are some down sides. Clones mean more ships slots and XP that could go to other ships. Again, it's important to build your entire fleet. There's how you approach the game as well. However, I wanted to point out that while it's not literally required/necessary to have clones, I don't think one should discount the usefulness and benefit of clones. Again, there's a reason a good number of players have duplicates and use them in events.

    As for Zara - how much space do you have? Will you ramp to Zara Due (lot more useful)? She's not the highest clone target IMO. but she can use SPF (nice feature) and has good FP for use in a combined fleet main fleet. Not so great for NB DA as you know (unless installation target). I

    Finally, "....this has sort of become an unfortunate reality of the game now that there are like 5 tags in every event now."

    We've seen 6-way fleet locking and that's not going to change IMO. In fact, 7-way fleet locking won't surprise me at all at some not-so-distant point in the future. It's simply a matter of more ships introduced = more fleet locking tags to offset and maintain the difficulty fleet locking is designed to impart on events.


    Last edited by goesto11; 09-30-2018 at 04:25 AM.
    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


 

 

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