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  1. #131
    Vice-Admiral Kuropo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goesto11 View Post
    So how the hell am I supposed to chip the boss when I can't GET to the boss with CTF. Running Node support, but doesn't matter. On hard troll sub node is out. If not taiha, then someone to chuuha who is then taiha'd later. Hell, Node G of all places is sending me back. This map is too damn expensive with E-5 to go. Shouldn't need 200k fuel, etc. to clear two maps. IDK what devs will do if anything. Better Friend fleet doesn't mean much when you can't get to the boss.

    At this point, not sure what to do. LAST thing I want to fail on all Hard clear and not get Fletcher as well, but tha't's looking like a high probability. This is ridiculous. E-5 Friend Fleet better be hax/OP after this map.

    @Kuropo: Any thoughts? As I recall, I think you posted that CTF getting to boss (and at boss) was pretty much cancer, but with STF & Start 3 it wasn't too bad. Hows pass rate for STF start 3 for farming (LBAS only) - especially without Nelson since I figure I'll need her for E-5. Honestly, I don't know if I'll have enough fuel, etc. for E-5 at this rate. Just keep getting taiha'd and NOT bloody sparkling CTF (or STF).

    Thanks
    E-4 is a very tedious and expensive map to clear. As you have experienced yourself most likely, little damage is done to the boss initially with a CTF and repair bills are high due to long routing. When retreating a heavily damaged ship, keep in mind that you have at least 3 surface radars in your fleet, which still allows you to route to the boss albeit through an extra air strike node.
    I found the passing rate to be very acceptable though, with around 50/50. (Certainly higher than E-3-2 and E-2-2.) I never found node G to be problematic at all and should be the most docile pre-boss node in the CTF routing. Air strike (in conjunction with normal node support) usually clears several targets at this node.

    Passing rate improves significantly as you sortie an STF through the unlocked route (even without the FCF anymore). Fighting the boss in pre-final phase suddenly becomes much easier too. Though, it should take only one more sortie (with STF) to reach the final kill phase. The final kill boss fight was tougher than expected, but still quite doable with adequate anti-installation equipment. (Frankly, I expected it to be quite easy.) Fortunately for me, my LBAS struck the boss twice leaving her with only 54 hp after that combat phase.

    Passing rate for my farming runs is close to 100% even without the use of support expeditions. Though, sometimes you do need to use the FCF and go through the extra air strike node. A ranks are pretty much guaranteed for me too. Sometimes you will end up with C rank after daytime battle, but night battle turns that into A rank. S ranks seem to be impossible for the composition I am running though. The Water demon refuses to sink against my fleet and sometimes is the lone survivor with only 100-200 hp. Friend fleets are not very useful either.

    As I mentioned before, I never do any sparkling, other than for support expeditions, or re-ranking planes anymore. It does not seem to be worth the time, energy and resources.

    My E-4 fleet compositions:





    Replays:

    Pre-final kill (CTF): http://kc3kai.github.io/kancolle-rep...om/84u9miP.png



    Final kill (STF): http://kc3kai.github.io/kancolle-rep...om/4xzFukT.png



    Fletcher farm: http://kc3kai.github.io/kancolle-rep...om/vIpJUpn.png



    1 out of 0 members found this post helpful.
    Last edited by Kuropo; 06-09-2019 at 01:40 PM.
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  2. #132
    Vice-Admiral DLRevan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuropo View Post
    I have a fair number of runs now and can confidently say that S ranks are impossible on hard difficulty, without the use of boss support and/or strong tci. The main issue is that the water demon just is not willing to be taken down. She'd been the lone survivor for a number of times now, with only 100-200 hp. E-4 friend fleet is not very helpful either against her or any other targets in the main fleet. The other enemies in the main fleet, including the boss, should not be a challenge though. Here's hoping that the new E-4 friend fleet is able to take down the water demon, if I do not get Fletcher by then. I doubt that will be the case considering how tanky she is and how much firepower it requires to defeat her.
    The issue I had....before I dropped Fletcher on Casual farming....was that I was running out of buckets much faster than I was running out of resources. So if its a matter of using boss support and TPCIs to at least have a chance of S ranking, that would have a been a good trade for me to at least dilute my runs a little with S rank's much higher 5~6% drop rate.

    @211303 Thanks.


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  3. #133
    Vice-Admiral Kuropo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLRevan View Post
    The issue I had....before I dropped Fletcher on Casual farming....was that I was running out of buckets much faster than I was running out of resources. So if its a matter of using boss support and TPCIs to at least have a chance of S ranking, that would have a been a good trade for me to at least dilute my runs a little with S rank's much higher 5~6% drop rate.
    In all fairness, I have not used support expeditions for my farming runs, so I cannot tell with any certainty how that would impact the result. In terms of resources, I started out this event with 2300+ buckets and still have 1900+ left after clearing up to E-5-2 Final kill (with some attempts) and some Fletcher farm runs. You can probably tell I am not at all worried about my bucket count. However, I do agree with you that it is in no particular friendly on your buckets indeed. I am also trying to conserve my resources a bit for the E-5-2 clear when Friend fleet gets implemented. If I still have not obtained Fletcher by then, I will surely try out sending boss support as well. Though, from what I am seeing from my past runs, the issue lies in the lack of firepower to finish off the Water demon. It does not look like boss support will help much in this regard.


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  4. #134
    Vice-Admiral DLRevan's Avatar
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    @Kuropo I'm basically suffering from my lazy attitude towards bucket hoarding over the past year which saw my buckets fall to an average 800~900 before events. Normally, still more than enough to complete most events, but throw in bucket heavy farming and it gets a lot tighter.


    Murakumo 17th June 2015
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  5. #135
    Captain kazenorin's Avatar
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    E4 Hard Cleared!

    Really, the CTF chipping part is the real challenge here.
    The final chip with STF at the unlocked node was trivially easy.
    Last dance wasn't too hard compared with the chipping runs.
    I managed to get it done in two runs with the first run being 50 HP away from getting the kill. Most of the time was spent sparkling.

    Used virtually the same comp as 211303 with these ships (table reused from earlier post):

    Farming CTFChipping CTFLD STF
    NelsonHiryuuHiei
    KumanoShoukakuKirishima
    TamaSouryuuChoukai
    ZuihouArashioNisshin
    ChoukaiFurutakaZuikaku
    ShoukakuMogamiKumano
    OoyodoKakoOoyodo
    MakigumoGotlandAkizuki
    AkizukiHatsuzukiAsashio
    TashkentMurasameArare
    AshigaraHaguroChikuma
    HaguroItaliaTone



    Last chip was just a regular sortie with no explicit sparkling nor supports.
    Last dance was run with both supports fully sparkled (all 24 ships).


    Got stuck and cannot proceed, then you, my first battleship passionately came: Kongou 143/165, 2016-02-28
    LSC Journey | Taihou 2016-06-16 | Yamato 2016-09-03 | Musashi 2016-09-08 | Bismarck 2016-09-10
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  6. #136
    Newly Registered Ken G's Avatar
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    E4 Hard cleared!

    Notable drops: Fletcher, Maruyu

    Special thanks to @211303 and @goesto11 for helping out with the Fast+ fleet comp for farming on E4 casual

    I started out by settling all the unlock mechanisms pertaining to the CTF fleet so as not to mix up ship-locking. After doing the necessary unlocks in the CTF route, i proceeded to do the chipping immediately. Took around 18 tries with retreats included. The chipping phase reminded me of Summer 2017 E6, where we slowly chipped down that ridiculous 2000 transport bar. so every hit on the boss is good progress, though it is extremely demoralising to see around 90% of your fleet crushed at the end of the boss battle, every run. The strategy I took was to load a lbas base full of range 4 min interceptors and send it to J. As a result, I only retreated at J once in all the runs. Average chipping per run was around 400hp with powerful friend fleet enabled.

    After the chipping was completed, switched to STF and wrapped up the remaining unlock mechanisms, which were quite smooth. After one run at the new start point, it was LD phase, so the whole STF fleet was sparkled and lbas planes ranked up to max for the final kill. The LD took only 1 attempt, and it was chillingly smooth, with 0 dmg taken until the boss node, LBAS destroying half of the boss main fleet while crippling Central Hime to 300+ hp, and proccing the most powerful friend fleet comp. I won't question what happened; just glad to be out of this map.

    Comps used are largely based on what @211303 has posted

    Friend Fleet OP


    CTF fleet


    CTF fleet lbas. Send 1st base to node J and 2nd base to boss node



    STF fleet for unlocking



    STF unlocking lbas. Send all to node S




    STF final fleet. Boss support used on LD



    STF final fleet lbas. Send all to boss node




    E4 Hard LD replay: https://kc3kai.github.io/kancolle-re...om/uqUOj7I.png




  7. #137
    Captain Shishouro's Avatar
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    E-4 Hard Clear (Bring coffee to stay awake)

    E-4 Hard Cleared

    I shamelessly used Nanashi's Report as a guide for my own runs. Due to my later start, I was able to avoid locking most of the historical ships, so I could optimize my fleets a bit better. Still I had a slightly different experience.

    Chipping
    18 Total Runs (7x for Unlock runs, 7x A-Ranks, 2x D-Ranks, 1x Node C Taiha, 1x Memory Crash)

    Last Dance
    3 Total Runs (1x Taiha @ X, 2x A-Ranks including clear)


    Fast+ CTF Thoughts
    It is fine for Casual farming, and maybe up to Easy chipping, but honestly I did not like it. I ran 25 Casual runs and only had 10x S-Ranks, 6x A-Ranks, the rest were Taiha's at I & O. The issue here is that you give up 12x Equip slots (for your Boilers) and that shows in the Node O passing rate. If you direct a bombing run to O, you suffer at Boss. I did pretty well with (3) bombing waves at Boss, but still ended up with the occasional A Rank. All the while, you are sucking down buckets. My recommendation, just focus on clearing at your intended difficulty and farm Fletcher post-clear. Worst-case, she will be a drop in the Winter Event, 6 months later.

    I should note, I did use the Fast+ CTF for my unlocking runs of L and T for my Hard Clear. If you happen to have a CTF fleet that nearly all hole punched, and you happen to have 12 sets of boilers/turbines, you can consider this for part of the unlock.


    For the actual chipping process, I used the following fleet:


    I definitely recommend using a standard CTF fleet. Instead of 12x Boilers, you can bring Seaplanes, T3 shells, extra Fighters/Bombers, and honestly, Nodes J & O are not that bad against the standard fleet. In my case, most of my ships were hole-punched, so that just meant everyone brought either Rockets K2 or Bofors (CV-WhO?).

    FCF is not needed for this. I dropped it after 2-3 runs. When I thought about it, there are not very many ships (no aircraft/radars) that I would be willing to retreat and press on without. Of course, this means you can drop the 5th Radar and add another T3 Shell/WG to one of your Cruisers.

    Following Nanashi's comp, I noticed that my Kaga had a short range, since only the Suisei M22 and the Ju87C KMX/Skilled increased shelling range. This concerned me, as Kaga attacked AFTER both Cruisers and occasionally the DD. I mitigated this by moving a Fighter to Hiryuu and adding the Aircraft Maintenance Personell to Kaga. The affect of all (3) CVs attacking first was noticeable in making Nodes J and O even easier to pass.

    LBAS was set-up and used according to Nanashi's & 211303's advice. Other than that, ask for the Strongest FF, avoid using Kagerou/Shiranui, and just keep mindlessly sending your fleets (with minimal downtime) to keep chipping 250-500 dmg per run. Bring coffee to stay awake.

    FUN FACT: On my last chipping run to drop the 193 dmg I needed to open up the 3rd Start, I nearly S-Ranked the Boss with my above fleet. FF Kirishima decimated Central Hime with a 450+ dmg double attack, and only the BB Water Demon Kai escort survived(~200/800 hp remaining).


    Last edited by Shishouro; 06-09-2019 at 11:36 PM. Reason: I don't know how to embed pictures


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  8. #138
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    Took a bit of a break (still ran some expeditions) and played some Kingdom Come Deliverance. So perhaps sufficient sanity/patience regained to restart bashing head against RNG wall which seems to be the issue with this map & CTF unlocking Start 3. Do appreciate all the replies.

    FWIW, fleet below, but I've experimented with jets on Shoukaku and thus can make some other minor changes (Mogami load out) with that since I won't need as many SPF for airpower.

    [+] Spoiler




    ----
    @ofi123: Thanks for the tips. Unfortunately, I'm doing most of them but two things (see below). If it helps, fleet is below in spoiler though per below, some changes in loadout if using jets.

    Well, I plan to use Hiei & Kirishima for STF so won't get FFleet then. Could get that FF for CTF, but problem is bloody getting to the boss node. Friend fleet ain't helping with that. Perhaps introducing Friend Support fleets should be considered at this rate. Also, I have no control of which Friend Fleet (so more RNG).

    HATE, HATE SparkleColle. Sparkle enough ships between resource expeditions and support expeditions (doing that now as it is.). Also, need to save "sanity" for E-5.

    Already running Node support which makes this so discouraging. Also switched to jets on Shoukaku. Not sure whether that's better or not. Used jets while farming and that's a plus. Also, IF not shot down, adds to airpower. I can get about the same airpower as above and add 2x Main on Mogami. Yeah, no artillery spotting, but eh, another 20+ FP won't hurt. Still leave one SPF and need RADAR for branching.

    FCF - not a fan, but will have to consider it. One problem though is that I'm getting multiple taihas not all that infrequently. Still, will consider. Can drop the Saiun from Hiryuu. RIP buckets, because I'll have to repair both DD thanks to morale loss. Also, also, FCF + Sparkling don't play well together, but see above about my thoughts on sparkling.

    ---
    @Kuropo: Thanks for the detailed reply. My fleet is in spoiler above. As you can see, not too much difference. Could lock Kaga I suppose, but I think CVB (incl. ability to use jets) is probably better, especially given my issue (so far) is just getting to the boss node. The fact that little damage is done just adds to the RNG misery (hopefully Friend Fleet will help a lot with that, but more RNG as to which fleet).

    Thanks for posting LBAS. Had some doubts as to whether 1xfighter + 3xbombers for both groups to boss will work that well on Hard. Will add a second fighter to LBAS Group 1.

    Glad to read that passing rate improves significantly with STF. Better though if/how long I'll be able to farm post clear is another matter. Need to get through this bloody map AND clear E-5, etc AND have resources + time left. Anyway, you're STF fleet is very similar to what I have planned to use as well. (have Teruzuki for AACI rather than Urakaze D, and Ooyodo for Gotland). And yes, with Water Oni I'm sure S-ranks won't happen so left with A-ranks and about 1% drop (vs. 1.2% S-rank casual). I can only hope that bit shorter route will lead to net reduction in resource though I'm sure it will be hell on buckets. Not getting Fletcher on Casual really hurts after all that time/expense.

    Long story short, seems like the only change I can really make is FCF and the good & bad that comes with FCF. As noted above, that may help some, but won't help me much at the boss losing an AACI and anti-installation DD. Also, won't help with multiple taiha retreats.

    ----
    @211303: Thanks. Problem is will mostly likely use Nelson for E-5 since appears from what I've rad that Nelson is the better choice over Nagato+Mutsu. As for CLT, I guess I can dust off a dupe Kitakami (assume that won't hurt A rank chance) from long ago. Kitakami & Ooi will be locked to E-5. Have to go all out on E-5 for sure.

    At this point I need to not think about farming since Hard clear is in doubt way things are going. Hate this map.

    ------
    @Ken G: Glad I could help.


    Last edited by goesto11; 06-10-2019 at 05:16 AM.
    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  9. #139
    Marshal Admiral ofi123's Avatar
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    @goesto11

    Yeah, I dislike sparklecolle (for sorties) as well. If not for 7 straight retreats I wouldn't have bothered. Though I did use snacks on higher cost girls to save resources. Since both sorties after the sparklefest resulted in me getting to the boss node, I had to admit it worked for me.

    As for FCF, since it's chipping I just want to get to the boss node. Usually the LBAS+friend fleet deals more to the boss than my fleet shelling+NB so I don't really care if my fleet got there gimped. Your fleet setup makes using it easy as well with saiun and 5 radars.

    As for jets, one downside will be your CVs being useless for 1st shelling phrase in boss node since they will target the water demon.



  10. #140
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    @goesto11 Eh, actually since last week I support Nagamutsu more for E5 as I believe I overestimated the value of artillery spotting.

    In terms of touch damage, the total post cap bonus (including ap shell) are as follows:

    Nagamutsu (Nagato with red/yellow/ap/radar, Mutsu with red/red/ap/recon)
    x3.15, x3.15, x2.57

    Nelson touch with Nelson, Iowa and Musashi (radar+ap+10cm in re)
    x2.27, 2.98, x2.42

    The gap is rather large. The other problem is that even with artillery spotting, non bonus BB is really going to struggle doing big damage to the first three target, and that they don't really have much chance to shoot before taiha with the hime's high accuracy.


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