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  1. #171
    Vice-Admiral Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 211303 View Post
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    @Mobius In the end it is still a 12 AA fighter. It will be useful even as a pure fighter.

    Thanks for the answer. I don't doubt that it's very useful, it was just more of a "is it worth going through all the trouble", especially considering the fact that I already have 2 Reppuu Model 11, a maxed Type 0 mod 53 Iwamoto and the new Reppuu with 13 AA. It just doesn't seem like much of a priority, especially considering how much trouble you seemed to have to clear this map. If the new friendly fleet is as good as people are saying, I might still give it a try though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kuropo View Post
    You do not really need that night fighter from the hard clear rewards. Stat differences are marginal indeed. Besides, night fighters are hardly any useful in general.
    In the end, it all comes down to whether you feel like clearing it on Hard difficulty.
    I do it because I have always been clearing events on the highest difficulty (and even forced to before difficulty selection). I want to keep it that way. ;)
    Thanks for the answer. I also have cleared all the events on hard so far, but I've been growing a bit tired of the sanity loss and I don't think the epeen medals are worth that much so I was wondering if the plane was worth the hassle. Seems like the friendly fleet kinda changed things a fair bit, so I might at least give it a try on hard and drop to normal if it's too much of a ballache.

    By the way, thanks for your E4H farm comp, works like a charm!





    Nagato 2015-03-22 / Mutsu 2015-03-22 / Hiei 2015-04-18 / Ooi 2015-05-30 / Musashi 2016-03-13 / Richelieu 2017-11-11 / Tatsuta 2018-01-18

  2. #172
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @Kuropo: Thanks again. Appreciate the info. Since I'm going to use FFleet (I'm sure there will be sufficient challenge for me on Part 2 and I've got bunch of stuff I can do with spare resources), decided to go with FBB in escort fleet along with Saratoga CVB (RIP 2500 ammo & 5500 steel for conversion. :/).

    Essentially, going with 211303's revised comp though still have a couple questions in termss of load out & positioning. 211303's comp does put RADAR on Saratoga rather than Mutsu K2, but can still get CVCI (M62 Iwai should count as DB AFAIK for that). I get 380-384 airpower which is sufficient since will get AP at some nodes in route anyway. :/ Only concern is what effect loss of plane ranks will have on airpower. Not 100% sure how much padding I have wit this. If things go south, I suppose I can go with same load out on Mutsu as Nagato and thus add a fighter (and probably a proper DB) on Saratoga CVB.

    Agree on Akagi K2 over K2E. Mine has an RE as well since I was sure I'd use her for this map. Well, it's not a waste on a good CV so that's fine. FWIW. Usually I keep my Saratoga as MkII (not Mod2) so there's my NB CV. Akagi K2 does have 5 slots so can use 5th slot for NOAP if needed.

    Best of luck clearing on Hard w/o friend fleet!

    Lastly, if you have time/inclination, feel free to comment on couple questions below as wel.

    ------
    @211303: Your revised comp answered most of my initial questions. Going with that, but still have a couple questions:

    1) Don't have 2x 41 triple K2 + 41cm triple kai. Best I have is 41cm triple K2 +7 and one 41cm triple kai +7. Put both on Mutsu K2. Ise has 16"/50 Mk7 (max) + 16" + FCR (no improvement). NOT sure how up to date KC Wikia is (Iowa's fit keeps changing for example. Now ONLY a fit bonus on 16"/50 (either type) if MARRIED!?). Currently, 16" + FCR gives Ise K2 a +2 fit bonus and has high accuracy stat as well. I do have a Proto 41cm triple at +5 but figure the FCR is better if not by much. Lastly, I could put a Proto 51cm twin +7 on Mutsu and move the 41cm triple k2 to Ise (with the 16"/50 Mk7 (max)). KC Wikia shows no penalty (also no bonus) for 51cm twins (either type) which was the case with Nagato & Mutsu when introduced, but KC3 Kai is showing a penalty. Assuming KC Wikia is right (no penalty or bonus). Lastly, assuming what I have is best way to go - trade some FP for accuracy on Mutsu given combined fleet. Thoughts?

    2) Assuming statement from original guide comps remains: "ignore the luck of the ships in the screenshot and assume all the TCI ships except Johnston and Sam are luckmodded." When I asked before, you recommended sticking with no luck-mod ABKM, but with NB DA load out which is what I've planned. However, I would think that would change the Escort fleet order some. So I have SB Roberts (flag), ABKM (NB DA), Bismarck (NB equip & RADAR mule), Kasumi (2x torps + RADAR), Kitakami (NB DA) and lastly Johnston (3x torps). Usually, I put one "finisher" ship as flag and then order in terms of NB firepower with greatest last. You have Bismarck 4th. Wondering thoughts behind this as well as whether I have the recommended order correct.

    Thanks.

    ----
    @F50Grunt @ofi123 @Danielosama: Congrats!


    Last edited by goesto11; 06-12-2019 at 10:05 PM.
    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  3. #173
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goesto11 View Post
    @Kuropo: Thanks again. Appreciate the info. Since I'm going to use FFleet (I'm sure there will be sufficient challenge for me on Part 2 and I've got bunch of stuff I can do with spare resources), decided to go with FBB in escort fleet along with Saratoga CVB (RIP 2500 ammo & 5500 steel for conversion. :/).

    Essentially, going with 211303's revised comp though still have a couple questions in termss of load out & positioning. 211303's comp does put RADAR on Saratoga rather than Mutsu K2, but can still get CVCI (M62 Iwai should count as DB AFAIK for that). I get 380-384 airpower which is sufficient since will get AP at some nodes in route anyway. :/ Only concern is what effect loss of plane ranks will have on airpower. Not 100% sure how much padding I have wit this. If things go south, I suppose I can go with same load out on Mutsu as Nagato and thus add a fighter (and probably a proper DB) on Saratoga CVB.

    Agree on Akagi K2 over K2E. Mine has an RE as well since I was sure I'd use her for this map. Well, it's not a waste on a good CV so that's fine. FWIW. Usually I keep my Saratoga as MkII (not Mod2) so there's my NB CV. Akagi K2 does have 5 slots so can use 5th slot for NOAP if needed.

    Best of luck clearing on Hard w/o friend fleet!

    Lastly, if you have time/inclination, feel free to comment on couple questions below as wel.

    ------
    @211303: Your revised comp answered most of my initial questions. Going with that, but still have a couple questions:

    1) Don't have 2x 41 triple K2 + 41cm triple kai. Best I have is 41cm triple K2 +7 and one 41cm triple kai +7. Put both on Mutsu K2. Ise has 16"/50 Mk7 (max) + 16" + FCR (no improvement). NOT sure how up to date KC Wikia is (Iowa's fit keeps changing for example. Now ONLY a fit bonus on 16"/50 (either type) if MARRIED!?). Currently, 16" + FCR gives Ise K2 a +2 fit bonus and has high accuracy stat as well. I do have a Proto 41cm triple at +5 but figure the FCR is better if not by much. Lastly, I could put a Proto 51cm twin +7 on Mutsu and move the 41cm triple k2 to Ise (with the 16"/50 Mk7 (max)). KC Wikia shows no penalty (also no bonus) for 51cm twins (either type) which was the case with Nagato & Mutsu when introduced, but KC3 Kai is showing a penalty. Assuming KC Wikia is right (no penalty or bonus). Lastly, assuming what I have is best way to go - trade some FP for accuracy on Mutsu given combined fleet. Thoughts?

    2) Assuming statement from original guide comps remains: "ignore the luck of the ships in the screenshot and assume all the TCI ships except Johnston and Sam are luckmodded." When I asked before, you recommended sticking with no luck-mod ABKM, but with NB DA load out which is what I've planned. However, I would think that would change the Escort fleet order some. So I have SB Roberts (flag), ABKM (NB DA), Bismarck (NB equip & RADAR mule), Kasumi (2x torps + RADAR), Kitakami (NB DA) and lastly Johnston (3x torps). Usually, I put one "finisher" ship as flag and then order in terms of NB firepower with greatest last. You have Bismarck 4th. Wondering thoughts behind this as well as whether I have the recommended order correct.

    Thanks.

    ----
    @F50Grunt @ofi123 @Danielosama: Congrats!
    1) Kc3 is more updated in this case. 51cm is discovered to have penalty now on Nagayo and Mutsu, with Nagato having lower penalty. Two 41 type is probably better in this case for touch to trigger earlier. Nagato can keep her 51.

    Other guns are fine.

    2) Just swap clt and abkm.


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  4. #174
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
    Thanks for the answer. I don't doubt that it's very useful, it was just more of a "is it worth going through all the trouble", especially considering the fact that I already have 2 Reppuu Model 11, a maxed Type 0 mod 53 Iwamoto and the new Reppuu with 13 AA. It just doesn't seem like much of a priority, especially considering how much trouble you seemed to have to clear this map. If the new friendly fleet is as good as people are saying, I might still give it a try though.



    Thanks for the answer. I also have cleared all the events on hard so far, but I've been growing a bit tired of the sanity loss and I don't think the epeen medals are worth that much so I was wondering if the plane was worth the hassle. Seems like the friendly fleet kinda changed things a fair bit, so I might at least give it a try on hard and drop to normal if it's too much of a ballache.

    By the way, thanks for your E4H farm comp, works like a charm!
    Well, it is definitely not 64 squadron tier important, but difficulty of the map is lowered as well.

    Perhaps try with hard first and drop if you want. Progress is kept anyway.


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  5. #175
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @211303: Thanks.

    1) Didn't expect KC3 Kai to be more up to date than KC Wikia. I'll have to remember that for future load outs though I don't use 51cm all that much on Nagato-class. Still, RIP screws as I improved the 4 I have quite a bit. Also, I guess I need to make 1-2 more 41cm triple Kai maybe (K2 really expensive) once I finish 3rd 16"/50 GFCS. RIP screws. At any rate, I'll keep BBV load out as is.


    2) Just swap clt and abkm."

    Sorry I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean put Kitakami 2nd and Abukuma (w/ NB DA) 5th? Thus Escort order = SB Roberts (flag), Kitakami 2nd, Bismarck Drei 3rd, Kasumi 4th, ABKM 5th & last Johnston, or do you mean swap them in your example comp (so Kitakami 3rd & ABKM with NB DA 5th. Kind of surprising to put ABKM with NB DA 5th as won't do much.


    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  6. #176
    Marshal Admiral ofi123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 211303 View Post
    51cm is discovered to have penalty now on Nagayo and Mutsu, with Nagato having lower penalty.
    No wonder I felt the trigger rate was shit in E-5. Normally I just put 41cmk2+kai on the toucher but here I wanted the range for shelling priority. I wonder if 41cmk2 triple+dual provides any bonus proc rate if that was the case.



  7. #177
    Vice-Admiral Kuropo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
    Thanks for the answer. I don't doubt that it's very useful, it was just more of a "is it worth going through all the trouble", especially considering the fact that I already have 2 Reppuu Model 11, a maxed Type 0 mod 53 Iwamoto and the new Reppuu with 13 AA. It just doesn't seem like much of a priority, especially considering how much trouble you seemed to have to clear this map. If the new friendly fleet is as good as people are saying, I might still give it a try though.

    Thanks for the answer. I also have cleared all the events on hard so far, but I've been growing a bit tired of the sanity loss and I don't think the epeen medals are worth that much so I was wondering if the plane was worth the hassle. Seems like the friendly fleet kinda changed things a fair bit, so I might at least give it a try on hard and drop to normal if it's too much of a ballache.

    By the way, thanks for your E4H farm comp, works like a charm!
    You are welcome! I kind of get how you feel. Though I have not grown tired of the "sanity loss", I am actually the opposite of that. I have long grown tired of this game and have become desensitized by all of this. It is the main reason why I will attempt to clear this map without Friend fleet still. Having said that, I am not yet ready to let this (Kantai Collection) world go and say farewell to my shipgirls.

    As I have mentioned on this forum several times before, I think E-5-1 really is one of the easiest phases of the entire event. I doubt it will give you much of a challenge, knowing that you have cleared the past events on Hard difficulty as well.
    E-5-2 Pre-final is also quite the plain sailing.
    E-5-2 Final kill phase might give you quite the handful due to double Re-class at pre-boss node and the usual Final kill shenanigans.
    It seems that the Friend fleet has made this map quite a bit easier though. From the likes of it, getting that Final kill should not be very hard anymore, if you can get to the boss that is.. If worse comes to worst, you could always drop down the difficulty and be done with it in a whiff.
    Seeing what fighters you already possess, missing out on the one from Hard clear reward should not be a big deal to you anyway.

    Again, you are welcome! Glad I could help you. Are you able to achieve S ranks at the boss node? In my 34 attempts (that it took me to finally obtain Fletcher), I only managed to S rank the boss twice, which happened yesterday. Achieving S rank (or close to it) at the boss seemed only possible under green T engagement. I am curious whether S ranks occur more frequent now with the new Friend fleets. (I got my Fletcher just before the day of new Friend fleet arrivals.)



    Quote Originally Posted by goesto11 View Post
    @Kuropo: Thanks again. Appreciate the info. Since I'm going to use FFleet (I'm sure there will be sufficient challenge for me on Part 2 and I've got bunch of stuff I can do with spare resources), decided to go with FBB in escort fleet along with Saratoga CVB (RIP 2500 ammo & 5500 steel for conversion. :/).

    Essentially, going with 211303's revised comp though still have a couple questions in termss of load out & positioning. 211303's comp does put RADAR on Saratoga rather than Mutsu K2, but can still get CVCI (M62 Iwai should count as DB AFAIK for that). I get 380-384 airpower which is sufficient since will get AP at some nodes in route anyway. :/ Only concern is what effect loss of plane ranks will have on airpower. Not 100% sure how much padding I have wit this. If things go south, I suppose I can go with same load out on Mutsu as Nagato and thus add a fighter (and probably a proper DB) on Saratoga CVB.

    Agree on Akagi K2 over K2E. Mine has an RE as well since I was sure I'd use her for this map. Well, it's not a waste on a good CV so that's fine. FWIW. Usually I keep my Saratoga as MkII (not Mod2) so there's my NB CV. Akagi K2 does have 5 slots so can use 5th slot for NOAP if needed.

    Best of luck clearing on Hard w/o friend fleet!

    Lastly, if you have time/inclination, feel free to comment on couple questions below as wel.

    ------
    @211303: Your revised comp answered most of my initial questions. Going with that, but still have a couple questions:

    1) Don't have 2x 41 triple K2 + 41cm triple kai. Best I have is 41cm triple K2 +7 and one 41cm triple kai +7. Put both on Mutsu K2. Ise has 16"/50 Mk7 (max) + 16" + FCR (no improvement). NOT sure how up to date KC Wikia is (Iowa's fit keeps changing for example. Now ONLY a fit bonus on 16"/50 (either type) if MARRIED!?). Currently, 16" + FCR gives Ise K2 a +2 fit bonus and has high accuracy stat as well. I do have a Proto 41cm triple at +5 but figure the FCR is better if not by much. Lastly, I could put a Proto 51cm twin +7 on Mutsu and move the 41cm triple k2 to Ise (with the 16"/50 Mk7 (max)). KC Wikia shows no penalty (also no bonus) for 51cm twins (either type) which was the case with Nagato & Mutsu when introduced, but KC3 Kai is showing a penalty. Assuming KC Wikia is right (no penalty or bonus). Lastly, assuming what I have is best way to go - trade some FP for accuracy on Mutsu given combined fleet. Thoughts?

    2) Assuming statement from original guide comps remains: "ignore the luck of the ships in the screenshot and assume all the TCI ships except Johnston and Sam are luckmodded." When I asked before, you recommended sticking with no luck-mod ABKM, but with NB DA load out which is what I've planned. However, I would think that would change the Escort fleet order some. So I have SB Roberts (flag), ABKM (NB DA), Bismarck (NB equip & RADAR mule), Kasumi (2x torps + RADAR), Kitakami (NB DA) and lastly Johnston (3x torps). Usually, I put one "finisher" ship as flag and then order in terms of NB firepower with greatest last. You have Bismarck 4th. Wondering thoughts behind this as well as whether I have the recommended order correct.

    Thanks.
    You are welcome! I think that fleet composition is indeed the way to go with Friend fleet implementation now. Instead of relying on your own ships to take down the escorts (or just bypassing them through boss snipes), you will now have the Friend fleet to take care of that for you. Thus, focussing the power on the important TCI DDs with an fBB carrying the night battle equipment (and radar) to take down the boss herself is definitely the better strategy now.

    Fighter-bombers indeed count as dive bombers for the CVCI mechanism. Concerning the loss of plane ranks, I have not found any (or significant) loss of that with my bombers equipped in a 20-plane count slot on Akagi. Therefore this likely is not an issue you should fret about.

    I also gave my Akagi a reinforcement expansion. I do not know about your situation, but I still have 12 reinforcement expansions left after expanding 34 ships in total. All of these I got from event or quest rewards. With this many already expanded, I have not found any good candidates to give one as well. So giving Akagi an expansion regardless of whether it is "wasted" on her is not a big issue to me. Anyway, I think it serve just fine, especially if you have rockets kai ni.

    Both 51cms had been listed as not having any penalties on Nagato-class. However, Akashi-list now notes an accuracy penalty indeed. Since combined fleet is concerned here, you would want to emphasize accuracy a bit more due to reduced accuracy with the combined fleet mechanism. Having said that, the improvement on your Proto 51cm somewhat negates that negative effect. In the case of E-5-2 and Nagato touch, you could equip it alongside a surface radar (and a yellow gun or Nagato fit gun) to cancel out said effect entirely (and even netting a positive result).
    As for who to equip the 51cm on, if you do opt for this, in a Nagato touch composition, I have seen setups where players have "very long range" on their flagship and a shorter range on their secondary BB, and vice versa. The rationale behind having the longest range on the flagship is obviously to get the chance to trigger Nagato touch as soon as shelling phase starts. I think the rationale behind the latter is to have the secondary ship to shoot first before it potentially gets moderately or heavily damaged. This is less important for the flagship since, as you probably know, she is less likely to get targeted. I think both are fine, but the former deserves the favour somewhat because Nagato touch is more important than a shelling round.
    Personally though, I do not care much about the 51cm accuracy penalty on Nagato/Mutsu, even in combined fleet. It does not seem to me that they are particularly unreliable in hitting enemies in such situation. (They are both level 99 in my case and I have a regular 51cm +6.)

    You could also assign your (non-luck modded) Abukuma as your escort fleet flagship to increase TCI trigger rate. In combination with all the night battle equipment, if triggered, she should still be performing TCI somewhat reliably. This was my strategy before I upgraded my Abukuma's luck stat.

    Finally, thank you for wishing me luck. I think I will kind of need that when not using Friend fleets. :d
    I need to quickly get my Fletcher up to level 55 and upgrade and modernize her to replace Ayanami in the fleet though.


    Last edited by Kuropo; 06-13-2019 at 01:04 AM.
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  8. #178
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofi123 View Post
    No wonder I felt the trigger rate was shit in E-5. Normally I just put 41cmk2+kai on the toucher but here I wanted the range for shelling priority. I wonder if 41cmk2 triple+dual provides any bonus proc rate if that was the case.
    By penalty I mean penalty from fit system. It doesn't affect touch triggering rate.


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  9. #179
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goesto11 View Post
    @211303: Thanks.

    1) Didn't expect KC3 Kai to be more up to date than KC Wikia. I'll have to remember that for future load outs though I don't use 51cm all that much on Nagato-class. Still, RIP screws as I improved the 4 I have quite a bit. Also, I guess I need to make 1-2 more 41cm triple Kai maybe (K2 really expensive) once I finish 3rd 16"/50 GFCS. RIP screws. At any rate, I'll keep BBV load out as is.


    2) Just swap clt and abkm."

    Sorry I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean put Kitakami 2nd and Abukuma (w/ NB DA) 5th? Thus Escort order = SB Roberts (flag), Kitakami 2nd, Bismarck Drei 3rd, Kasumi 4th, ABKM 5th & last Johnston, or do you mean swap them in your example comp (so Kitakami 3rd & ABKM with NB DA 5th. Kind of surprising to put ABKM with NB DA 5th as won't do much.
    Sbr, kasumi, ktkm, bismarck, abkm, johnston.


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  10. #180
    Vice-Admiral Kuropo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofi123 View Post
    No wonder I felt the trigger rate was shit in E-5. Normally I just put 41cmk2+kai on the toucher but here I wanted the range for shelling priority. I wonder if 41cmk2 triple+dual provides any bonus proc rate if that was the case.
    Since when does accuracy affect Nagato touch trigger rate? :O


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