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  1. #81
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahlev View Post
    I would like a second opinion on that, cause RNG hates me.

    I managed to get to the last dance of P1 more or less fast, but then evey single time, for over 20 times, things went like this:

    * LBAS scratches everything but doesn't kill anything.
    * Nagato fails to trigger touch on the first combat round
    * Nagato gets chuuha/taiha on the first combat round
    * Akagi gets chuuha/taiha on the first combat round
    * If by chance i get to night combat, everyone decides to not trigger cut ins (even though night scout and flare are running).

    After 50k fuel (and no, i wasn't even running Musashi) i decided to re-chevron everything on my base. Spent most of the day on that, and then and only then i managed to kill the P1 boss.. after 3 more "Nagato goes down first/what's a cut in?" runs.


    At this point, i am seriously pondering if i should just go ahead and do E5 on easy instead, and use the resources left to LSC for Maruyu so i can luckmod my ships. 50 luck is not cutting it for Kitakami, and the prospect of P2 is not looking good, even if friendly fleets came.
    Rather then giving up, perhaps show us the fleet first and see what you can optimize, the fact that you are using tci ktkm (since you mention luck) against they lowly armored p1 boss is already very questionable. It doesn't necessary be the difficulty of the map, but could be the comp itself.

    As for whether to give up or not, just do the debuff and chip the boss to p2LD first. You can then wait for friend fleet. If it is proven not enough, you can always tune down at that point. The progress will be kept anyway.


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  2. #82
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    This is what i ended using for P1:

    Nagato: pasta/iowa guns, scout, ap, mg
    Mutsu: mutsu/iowa guns, ap, scout, mg
    Nelson: nelson guns, scout, ap
    Ise: ise gun, 41cm, 2x fighter, scout, mg
    Maya: 20.3, 90mm, radar, scout, mg
    Akagi: 2x fighter, TB, 2x fighter, rosa (had issues reaching AS at the boss, so had to overload it. She was chuuha/taiha 95% of the time on the boss anyways, but helped on passing rate)

    Zuihou: NTB, asw DB, NF, nightops, mg (she was my main source of damage during night, for the most part)
    Abukuma: 2gun, minisub, mg (non luckmoded)
    Myoukou: 2gun, night scout, torp
    Sammy.B: 2torp, sonar (for passing rate)
    Johnston: 2torp, sonar (idem)
    Kitakami: 2torp, minisub, mg (switched from 2gun/minisub, actually, because by the time her turn came the boss was always too high hp on my other runs).

    LBAS was 2F2T x2 and 1F3T, all to boss.

    As to why the sonars and not using Toukai... My early runs ended with my escorts (and Ise when she carried a divebomber) focusing too much on the boss escort sub but never killing it. This way seemed to work better for me as both the first sub node and this last sub would die relatively early in combat, and the fleet could do actual stuff.



  3. #83
    Admiral NanashiYoukai's Avatar
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    Finally cleared the Node V TCF unlock. Sat on that for a week.

    It might be helpful to know that having a AV in the TCF will bypass the routing to the 1st boss regardless of LoS. Bringing 1 AV, I had 5 radars and 3 scoutplanes and was still spun away from the 1st boss towards V. I had to use Akitsushima because my 4-slot AVs were already locked to other maps, but if you didn't use Commandant so far in the event she would work for here.

    You'll give up a BBV for this, so your main fleet shelling will be weaker. Especially since, if you bring FCF, you'd probably want to put it on a DD like Naganami or Kasumi instead of the BBV in order to bring more fighters on Ise k2. But it's something to consider if you have many upgraded air radars (increase Fleet Air Defence, which increases shotdown and thus the possibility of emptying the Nu on the route).


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    Last edited by NanashiYoukai; 06-06-2019 at 05:20 AM.
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  4. #84
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahlev View Post
    This is what i ended using for P1:

    Nagato: pasta/iowa guns, scout, ap, mg
    Mutsu: mutsu/iowa guns, ap, scout, mg
    Nelson: nelson guns, scout, ap
    Ise: ise gun, 41cm, 2x fighter, scout, mg
    Maya: 20.3, 90mm, radar, scout, mg
    Akagi: 2x fighter, TB, 2x fighter, rosa (had issues reaching AS at the boss, so had to overload it. She was chuuha/taiha 95% of the time on the boss anyways, but helped on passing rate)

    Zuihou: NTB, asw DB, NF, nightops, mg (she was my main source of damage during night, for the most part)
    Abukuma: 2gun, minisub, mg (non luckmoded)
    Myoukou: 2gun, night scout, torp
    Sammy.B: 2torp, sonar (for passing rate)
    Johnston: 2torp, sonar (idem)
    Kitakami: 2torp, minisub, mg (switched from 2gun/minisub, actually, because by the time her turn came the boss was always too high hp on my other runs).

    LBAS was 2F2T x2 and 1F3T, all to boss.

    As to why the sonars and not using Toukai... My early runs ended with my escorts (and Ise when she carried a divebomber) focusing too much on the boss escort sub but never killing it. This way seemed to work better for me as both the first sub node and this last sub would die relatively early in combat, and the fleet could do actual stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahlev View Post
    This is what i ended using for P1:

    Nagato: pasta/iowa guns, scout, ap, mg
    Mutsu: mutsu/iowa guns, ap, scout, mg
    Nelson: nelson guns, scout, ap
    Ise: ise gun, 41cm, 2x fighter, scout, mg
    Maya: 20.3, 90mm, radar, scout, mg
    Akagi: 2x fighter, TB, 2x fighter, rosa (had issues reaching AS at the boss, so had to overload it. She was chuuha/taiha 95% of the time on the boss anyways, but helped on passing rate)

    Zuihou: NTB, asw DB, NF, nightops, mg (she was my main source of damage during night, for the most part)
    Abukuma: 2gun, minisub, mg (non luckmoded)
    Myoukou: 2gun, night scout, torp
    Sammy.B: 2torp, sonar (for passing rate)
    Johnston: 2torp, sonar (idem)
    Kitakami: 2torp, minisub, mg (switched from 2gun/minisub, actually, because by the time her turn came the boss was always too high hp on my other runs).

    LBAS was 2F2T x2 and 1F3T, all to boss.

    As to why the sonars and not using Toukai... My early runs ended with my escorts (and Ise when she carried a divebomber) focusing too much on the boss escort sub but never killing it. This way seemed to work better for me as both the first sub node and this last sub would die relatively early in combat, and the fleet could do actual stuff.
    More info would be nice, but these are the areas that needs optimization from what is given:

    1. Your myoukou is doing mixed cutin with 2 gun 1 torp, which not only gives lower damage than tci, but also lower triggering rate. She should use 2 torp instead.

    3. Enemy armor is rather low, so instead of a cutin centric comp, a da centric one is preferred given the lack of luckmod. Johnston can use her 2 gun build to provide aaci, thus you can replace maya with spf mule for more fighter power. Akagi can then have cvci. You can leave sam with tci (best would be replacing with a normal tci dd though cos modifer for this node is low) and myoukou.

    3. Night cvl is terrible unless against very high armor target, which none of the targets in p1 are. Ooi is a way better replacement.

    4. Ordering is not ideal. Abkm in da comp could not be expected to do mich damage, so somewhere around 4-5th slot will be much better.

    5. Gun choice are bad on most bb. The best vl range gun for nagato will be 51 cm, but not pasta gun due to its terrible stat. Nelson gun isn't even avaliable for upgrade, so it is vastly inferior to many currently available guns.

    6. 1fighter 3 bomber for all base is really enough for ad. 2 fighter will not get you ap anyway, and is generally not worth it to lose one bomber.

    7. Tci only improves damage marginally comparing to da on a clt due to damage cap. In fact, with the best gun avaliable, night scout triggered and midget sub type c from last event, clt can reach cap anyway. Tci in this case will only provide single digit damage increase unless the ship is at chuha.


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  5. #85
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    @211303 Answering by points.

    1.- I started with Myoukou with a 2 torps/scout/flare setup. My proc rate was nonexistant, which is why i switched it around. Then again, she didn't do a mixed cutin either even once (it was either scratch, or taiha during day).

    2.- I admit that it never crossed through my mind that Johnston could be the one doing her special AACI. I did use Akagi with CVCI at the start, plus Suzuya as fighter mule and Hamakaze for AACI, but the result was always (and i mean it, always) that Akagi would end chuuha en route or on the first combat round (often before she could attack). On second thought, not using Johnston properly might have been one of the reasons why that setup did not work.

    3.- Ooi was also part of my initial setup, instead of Myoukou. Taking #2 in account, had i used Johnston properly, things should have gone way better.

    5.- Isn't the 51cm accuracy penalty particularly bad for Nagato/Mutsu (for combined fleet i mean)? Shouldn't Nelson's gun fit accuracy/damage bonus on herself be comparable to, let's say, a +10 41cm triple gun kai. That was my only reasoning for picking them to be honest (plus i don't have many 46cm either).

    6.- Once i switched the plane setup from Ise, Akagi and started using Zuihou, i was getting parity when using 3x1F3T at the boss, and superiority with 2F2T/2F2T/1F3T. Was i supposed to fight him under AD? :P

    As for #3 and #7... I can't really make any excuse for them, i have always been bad at picking orders mid maps, or switching setups when it seems like something is not working.


    Last edited by Kahlev; 06-06-2019 at 06:54 AM.

  6. #86
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahlev View Post
    @211303 Answering by points.

    1.- I started with Myoukou with a 2 torps/scout/flare setup. My proc rate was nonexistant, which is why i switched it around. Then again, she didn't do a mixed cutin either even once (it was either scratch, or taiha during day).

    2.- I admit that it never crossed through my mind that Johnston could be the one doing her special AACI. I did use Akagi with CVCI at the start, plus Suzuya as fighter mule and Hamakaze for AACI, but the result was always (and i mean it, always) that Akagi would end chuuha en route or on the first combat round (often before she could attack). On second thought, not using Johnston properly might have been one of the reasons why that setup did not work.

    3.- Ooi was also part of my initial setup, instead of Myoukou. Taking #2 in account, had i used Johnston properly, things should have gone way better.

    5.- Isn't the 51cm accuracy penalty particularly bad for Nagato/Mutsu (for combined fleet i mean)? Shouldn't Nelson's gun fit accuracy/damage bonus on herself be comparable to, let's say, a +10 41cm triple gun kai. That was my only reasoning for picking them to be honest (plus i don't have many 46cm either).

    6.- Once i switched the plane setup from Ise, Akagi and Zuihou, i was getting parity when using 3x1F3T at the boss, and superiority with 2F2T/2F2T/1F3T. Was i supposed to fight him under AD?

    As for #3 and #7... I can't really make any excuse for them, i have always been bad at picking orders mid maps, or switching setups when it seems like something is not working.
    1. Well, even if that actually triggers, the damage will be terrible since it ix x1.3 instead of x1.5. It's just barely better than da, which is x1.2.

    5. Firepower is vastly more important than a little bit of accuracy loss, -4 or 5 on nagato in this case. You already have a fit gun to balance that out and the rest can be migitated with sparkle and level. Same case for nelson, accuracy is just not as good comparing the large amount of fp you get with 46 kai, which is a neutral fit gun for nelson.

    As for not having enough 46 gun (or upgrade), that ties down to preparation which is another necessary area when you want to hard mode consistently.

    6. It ties down to the recommendation of using spf mule. One fighter on zuihou cannot compensate the loss of 4 spf, and instead of losing lbas bomber, which is extremely effective here since all bbhime take bonus damage from airstrike, having that spf mule is the better move. With the boss's as line at 630, 6 waves of ad gets the line down to 450 ish only.

    More importantly, the extra fighter doesn't really give you any advantage over 1fighter 3 bomber as both will get ad. You might want to check your record if your initial run actually get ai, but for reference, for first wave, 64 squadron+mod 34+two type 1 will barely get ad just fine assuming all bombers are fully ranked.


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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by 211303 View Post
    6. It ties down to the recommendation of using spf mule. One fighter on zuihou cannot compensate the loss of 4 spf, and instead of losing lbas bomber, which is extremely effective here since all bbhime take bonus damage from airstrike, having that spf mule is the better move. With the boss's as line at 630, 6 waves of ad gets the line down to 450 ish only.

    More importantly, the extra fighter doesn't really give you any advantage over 1fighter 3 bomber as both will get ad. You might want to check your record if your initial run actually get ai, but for reference, for first wave, 64 squadron+mod 34+two type 1 will barely get ad just fine assuming all bombers are fully ranked.
    Oh, i misunderstood you there, i thought you meant the combined fleet engagement under AD, instead of the LBAS swipes. I don't use a viewer so can't say for sure, but the LBAS bombers went from getting 3/4 to fullydepleted when using 1F3T to losing about 25% with 2F2T/2F2T/1F3T. After 3 boss runs only lost 1 rank on the bombers from the first base.


    How would you have suggested dealing with the submarine not dying and soaking all the damage from your escorts? Would having Sam on full OASW duty been too much of a detriment for killing purposes in theory? As it stood on my runs, just having her with a single sonar (or having no ASW gear at all) was just not enough, and one of the reasons Zuihou ended where it did was to help deal with that sub. (for last dance, it often took 5 attacks for it to sink, with 3 ships doing single sonar/planes oasw)



  8. #88
    Commander Makikaki's Avatar
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    Well, there's still hope for E-5 friend to arrive on last week of the event; it's that one extra little push that might help a lot of peeps with bad luck.



  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahlev View Post
    I would like a second opinion on that, cause RNG hates me.

    I managed to get to the last dance of P1 more or less fast, but then evey single time, for over 20 times, things went like this:

    * LBAS scratches everything but doesn't kill anything.
    * Nagato fails to trigger touch on the first combat round
    * Nagato gets chuuha/taiha on the first combat round
    * Akagi gets chuuha/taiha on the first combat round
    * If by chance i get to night combat, everyone decides to not trigger cut ins (even though night scout and flare are running).

    After 50k fuel (and no, i wasn't even running Musashi) i decided to re-chevron everything on my base. Spent most of the day on that, and then and only then i managed to kill the P1 boss.. after 3 more "Nagato goes down first/what's a cut in?" runs.


    At this point, i am seriously pondering if i should just go ahead and do E5 on easy instead, and use the resources left to LSC for Maruyu so i can luckmod my ships. 50 luck is not cutting it for Kitakami, and the prospect of P2 is not looking good, even if friendly fleets came.
    If you were able to pass E-5-1 pre-final kill phase smoothly, obtaining the final kill should not be much harder. While the boss node does get an upgrade, it should still be very doable considering the heavy ships you are fielding and the historical bonus. That is of course if rng is not absolutely playing against you and given that you sortie an adequate fleet composition and equipment setups.

    In terms of fleet and equipment, it appears that has already been addressed by 211303. Though, I am not as much against TCI as he is. Of course, with TCI setups, you will be relying more rng that might be necessary.
    Johnston with double torpedoes (or double guns) with just a sonar should be sufficient to disable submarine in the enemy escort fleet. (If it is not for you, then you could use the same setup on Samuel as well.)

    E-5-1 took me 4 sorties to clear, including one S rank at the boss node. I used TCI setups on my escort fleet ships and it worked out just fine.
    Also, I have not bothered to sparkle or re-rank planes for many of the events now. I think it is mostly a waste of time, energy and resources.

    Replay of my E-5-1 final kill: http://kc3kai.github.io/kancolle-rep...om/jGm3rJf.png



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kahlev View Post
    How would you have suggested dealing with the submarine not dying and soaking all the damage from your escorts? Would having Sam on full OASW duty been too much of a detriment for killing purposes in theory? As it stood on my runs, just having her with a single sonar (or having no ASW gear at all) was just not enough, and one of the reasons Zuihou ended where it did was to help deal with that sub. (for last dance, it often took 5 attacks for it to sink, with 3 ships doing single sonar/planes oasw)
    What level are your Johnston and Samuel?


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  10. #90
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahlev View Post
    How would you have suggested dealing with the submarine not dying and soaking all the damage from your escorts? Would having Sam on full OASW duty been too much of a detriment for killing purposes in theory? As it stood on my runs, just having her with a single sonar (or having no ASW gear at all) was just not enough, and one of the reasons Zuihou ended where it did was to help deal with that sub. (for last dance, it often took 5 attacks for it to sink, with 3 ships doing single sonar/planes oasw)
    I would just have a single sonar on either Johnston or Samuel and that's it.



    This is the estimated damage of a lv99 Samuel with a +6 T4 sonar in parallel formation. Without a crit, she will do 20-44 damage, so at least chuha the sub most of the time. That's really all you need tbh. You don't necessarily have to completely sink the sub given that main fleet shell twice before escort will even fire. All the other ships in the enemy escort should really be dead when it is the shelling round of escort, and thus the existence of the sub will not affect that either.

    You will encounter the same problem for P2. In that case, I will suggest bringing a toukai in one of your lbas team without equipping any sonar on your ship. The bonus damage of Johnston and Samuel is also way higher that they can seriously damage the sub without a sonar with their innate oasw ability.


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