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  1. #211
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    @goesto11 Speaking of the fleet composition, and since you aren't using FF for what i understand, do you still have Akagi available? Since she is also on the bonus damage list it wouldn't the that big of an issue damage wise (there is the chance of en-route chuuha though), and the extra slot could be the final push needed.



  2. #212
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @Kahlev: Oh, I'm using friend fleet. 110% using friend fleet and the better friend fleet. I'm not looking for glory here - and nothing against those who want to clear w/o Friend Fleet, always get 1st class medal, etc. I generally go for Hard clears, but for this type of extra RNG map, I'd be happy to go Medium if the equipment rewards were the same as Hard (and Hard gives 1st class medal + more screws, etc. - like it was when difficulty system introduced). I'm doing this for the better Reppuu. Good NB fighter and +12AA. Don't have a lot of +12AA planes.

    So far been just getting by for AS at Node X. Literally had 322 airpower at times which is barely enough. Other times, 326 or so. It's close. [Edit] Just had one fail - down to 318 airpower = AP = Re says no pass. It's not that often so reluctant to give up something like Ise K2 artillery spotting.

    Update - I capitulated and put RE on all but Fletcher who didn't have one already (couple had one). So that's11 or 12 RE JUST of this event. Over half of my stockpile. This can't keep up. Too many ships in game to keep doing this with "Use Goddess to pass" EO maps.

    Edit - Nevermind on how RGoddess work. Repair goddess triggered on Kasumi when she got torped by Re-Elite. "Best thing" was that Re-Elite also taiha'd Nagato. So I waste a Repair Goddess and have to retreat anyway. This map is cancer.

    Questions:

    1) if Nagato is hit to chuuha, is it even worth going to the boss node? Seriously, no chance of Nagato CI so don't see how I'll clear. That's another thing I need to trigger (and do well and hit Himes or Boss). More RNG.

    2) If after Node X if say SB Roberts, Kitakami & Johnston (or substitute Kasumi for one of them) are all at chuuha, is there any reason to go to boss node. Again, serious here. Is there ANY decent chance (key) of clear without at least 2 if not 3 of my 4-5 good NB ships healthy? Seems like just a waste of buckets and resources (incl huge repair bill).

    [Update] And. now that I've put Goddess on all 5 escort, the new trick is to have one of my main fleet taiha'd or at Node X have one in escort AND one in main taiha'd. My passing rate after I put RE & Repair Goddess on all escort is about 33%. Is this even normal? How the hell are people clearing this relatively easily w/ Friend Fleet?

    -------

    Even IF I get to the Boss Node, this is the problem I have (and it's a BIG problem).

    This is typical of what I have for NB. Maybe Boss has 4 escorts, maybe 3 if I'm very lucky (once I think). I always get Akagi Friend Fleet which is pretty good.


    Image below is typical of where I end up AFTER Friend Fleet. Right at the start I'm in bad shape. SB Roberts taiha'd so she's out, and Johnston at chuuha ain't helping with damage. Boss never got touched this run by my fleet, and 300-400hp on boss at end of NB is pretty much were I'm ALWAYS at. It's not even close. This is a problem. I need to have at most 1 boss escort to have a chance and stars still align with al the NB TCI RNG. BTW, Kitakami got taiha'd (again) by boss so she was out and Johnston was taiha'd as well.

    This is why I'm so frustrated (and I'm now below 100k fuel - this run cost me over 1500- fuel to repair because my main fleet gets HAMMERED in day.) Seriously, WTF more can I do here? For me, this is worse than Summer 2017 (which I finally managed to clear without using any Repair Goddes) which was NOT good. Bad enough to run the gauntlet and make it to the boss, but I need a miracle even WITH Friend fleet to pull this off the way things are going. SOMEHOW get boss with only say 2 or 3 max escorts. Friend fleet helps out a lot AND I get multiple NB TCI AND have NB TCI target boss AND get good damage roll.




    Here's another example of where I'm at AFTER Friend Fleet. Boss with plenty of HP and 2x BB Meat Shields - and all 3 available to taiha my ships for NB. Note how my main fleet is HAMMERED. The costs is insane to repair all those BBs. Seriously, I look at this at the start and go "Welp, here's another fail" because I NEED SB Roberts, Kasumi, Abukuma, Kitakami and Johnston at light damage or better when they attack to do enough damage.



    Last edited by goesto11; 06-16-2019 at 07:14 AM.
    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  3. #213
    Captain ohno133's Avatar
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    @goesto11 33% passing rate at node X is pretty bad, for most people it would be ~75% with full escort spakle + repair goddess. If NagaMutsu fleet doesn't work for you how about switching to Nelson fleet, I see it able to kill a Dyson in day battle many times since you will have both Musashi + Iowa artillery spotting. This is my clear fleet, just ignore the gun on Musashi expansion slot.



    Also I would recommend full TCI on every escort ships except the BB. I found that my KTKM double attack never does pass 200 damage to the boss or Dyson and I know she can do 300+ to the boss easily with TCI.


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  4. #214
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @ohno133: It's about 33% total, though by far Node X is most of it - just not 100% of retreats. I've had the occasional taiha retreat at Node N >_> IDK, so perhaps 40% at Node X (perhaps a bit less). I'm down to about 80k fuel now. Just today burned over 35k+ fuel and close to 85k or so thus far on this godforsaken map.That's after about 100k on E-4. IDK how many buckets today either. Had a number of 10 or even 11 buckets needed for repairs. Maybe 100?

    [Edit} Just checked and my passing rate post RE/Goddess on Escort (not flag though) is somehow a bit WORSE than before I added that stuff. Total passing rate is 38% for all LD sorties. Also, ONCE I was able to get boss down to 140hp or so. Might have cleared but a rarely healthy Johnston targeted BB Hime and no NB TCI anyway. Other than that, it's 300-400+ on Boss at end of night battle.

    One problem is that I don't have ABKM luck modded. That one difference I'm seeing, but I know some have passed with ABMK with NB DA. Get she's a primary luck mod target, but (A) have some trouble with Maruyu LSC as it is (below average success and not on the PC/phone to where I can spam exped all the time. I can do LSC 1x per day, but then RIP something else like ranking or expensive luck mod attempts (e.g. 46cm, T32 RADAR, etc.). Also, I'm not a fan of her, and so often this games comes down to this 1 ship it seems. Feels like ABKM is rammed down my throat more than any other ship in the game where IMO a big part of this game IS the various ship-girl personalities. Get that not all will be equal stat-wise, but there's a limit. Should have an alt option to ABKM like you have Ooi if you're not a fan of Kitakami.

    Anyway, bottom line is no luck modded ABKM. Could put as flag ,but since SB Roberts isn't luck modded either. Only luck mod in this fleet is Kitakami.

    Re. NB TCI, you mentioned all but BB, but your screen shot shows KTKM with NB DA so I'm not sure if you just mean NB TCI on ABKM and see above on that. As for Kitakami (who again is luck modded), it's more RNG and she caps out as it is with NB DA (w/ Night Scout). Only way that would help is if at chuuha. Even then with damage reduction, would NB TCI at chuuha be enough to matter? Maybe, but again RNG to trigger.

    I have two problems which are not easily solved, and solving one may make the other worse. Maybe Nelson comp with Musashi has better passing rate, but my understanding is that it's less effective at the boss. It's not just passing rate. I get killed at the boss (maybe that's not too unusual). C-loss (even D at times) after day, and then Boss has at least 2 if not 3 if not even 4 f'ign meat-shield AFTER friend fleet. Again, this is like Spring 2016 IMO (my most hated event) where I have to have several things align. Lot of RNG.

    So I'm not sure what the hell to do. All I know is that my fuel is running out. I can't go down to zero & hope for regen/try to stockpile. I don't have that much time/able to be connected to game hours per day to constantly run expeditions. If I get to soft cap, I WILL have to bail out and go Medium - HOPEFULLY that's not too difficult. Just time is an issue as well. Spent a lot this event already.

    Only things that come to mind are as follows and none are great as I have to give up stuff

    (1) As you suggest, go Nelson touch, but (A) more expensive and may not be as good at the boss node. Assuming Nelson CI trigger rate same as Nagato/Mutsu. That may help with passing since I can put SPF on Mutsu 5th slot and ensure AS at Node X. Also have art spotting on Nelson. Probably have to keep Iwai though on Saratoga instead of better fighter

    (2) Drop Zuiun on Ise and go 2x fighters. This will guarantee me AS at Node X rather than maybe 80% of the time (guesstimate). Should be able to also put Suisei M22 Skilled on Saratoga which should help as well. RIP art spotting for Ise K2 which can help with passing though so IDK if I net out better or not in the end.

    (3) Put RADAR on SB Roberts. That allows another fighter on Saratoga. Airpower benefits, Suisei M22, etc. but now one of my critical NB TCI ships (and one most likely to trigger) is nerfed a bit. That does NOT help when I need max damage output at boss.

    (4) Put NB TCI on ABKM and put her as flagship. More RNG, but perhaps bigger payoff. W/o luck mod, have not seen that recommended at all TBH.

    So... IDK. At this point probably try 2nd fighter on Ise? Maybe try Nelson comp, but seems clear majority favor Nelson/Mutsu.


    Last edited by goesto11; 06-16-2019 at 08:31 AM.
    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  5. #215
    Commander Makikaki's Avatar
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    @goesto11

    You shouldn't despair, really.

    Just checked my other computer since I've been playing on 2 machines; my total sortie on this map is actually 120+ of which about 60 something was LD attempts - about 60% reached the boss (13-15 sorties were fully sparkled the rest I didn't bother with due to time constraints, and I've never used node support right up until my last 5 tries when FF was introduced, and still - my final kill didn't have any ships sparkled so there is that).

    Your screenshots seems about right, nothing you can do about it - also - don't feel bad about your equips, those extra improvements barely matter since 150% crit damage exists (I can go into asinine territory here saying that reliable scratch damage against big HP enemies is better than overupgraded guns just hitting the armor for 5 dmg thanks to bad rolls).
    For the record I only ever entered NB with only 1 BB hime alive once, check my kill if you are curious how much can good targeting and TCI proc mean (it's the first time everything aligned properly too, lol) you can see how people could kill the boss before FF when johston's TCI can do so much dmg.

    I'd also say it's better to ditch arti on Ise for another fighter for easier passing at node X.

    Naga-Tsu vs Nelson is debatable; one thing is certain: both suck if they don't proc - though Nelson comp can be cheaper if you build it in a way.
    Putting ABKM in FS position could help with her low luck if you'd opt for TCI, not much but better than nothing I guess.
    Repair Goddesses should only be put on DDs and CL/Ts - put a bulge on the FBB for anti RE opening, even having one equppied with it could help.
    I didn't bother going to the boss with Nelson/Nagato on orange, but I did went ahead when Johhny and Sammy B were damaged since they both can deal about 50-100 dmg on the boss with TCI.

    If you still have around 100k~ fuel and 1k buckets, you can finish the map with a bit of reliability... I burned a good 1000 buckets on this event alone - more than I have on '17 summer and '18 spring combined.

    -Take this from someone who never killed any last boss on hard mode with lucky snipes, it was always my last ship dealing the killing blows on a fully cleaned out enemy fleet.


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  6. #216
    Captain ohno133's Avatar
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    @goesto11 Likewise, you shouldn't be despair, take a break from the game time to time.

    1. Yes, it slightly more expensive but it wrong about "may not be as good at the boss node". Musashi can easily penetrate Dyson armor and does 300 damage, idk if Mutsu can do that. Also you hadn't consider the bonus damage of Iowa when touch trigger. I would say out of the 3 touch shot only the first shot from Nelson is weak only on Dyson and the boss, the other 2 shots can do 300+ easily. I feel that you are focusing too much on total touch damage that you forget there are other factor that help you on this boss node. Check out my replay if you want to see how much Nelson touch did, I feel that it not much different compare to NagaMutsu fleet.



    About fighter power if you follow my exact plane set up, you should get AS on node X easily, so I don't think you need to move the radar around. The second fighter on Ise should take care of that problem.

    2. I support dropping Zuiun for a second fighter on Ise, she pretty much does nothing at the boss with that firepower anyway.

    3. Do not swap in RADAR to any American DDs, they should have 3 best torps to finish the boss. If the TCI crit. the boss can be one-shot even at ~600 HP.

    4. If you don't have luck modded ABKM, I suggest to keep her as double attack set up. Do put KTKM as your flag with TCI set up though.


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  7. #217
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @Makikaki Thanks for the encouragement & tips, but honestly, I have some doubts. There's always unlucky outliers with lots of RNG, and this has lots of RNG. Bad Tanaka. With 164k fuel (going by memory, but 99% sure that's correct). I'm down to less than half of that - and unlockng went fairly well. Most of it went fairly well until now which apart from maybe Node V with TCF is what comment suggest.

    Thing is that it took you 60 sorties, but remember, I'm using better Friend Fleet, and the vast majority of your LD attempts if I read your statement correctly was prior to friend fleet. Seems it only took you 5 attempts with friend fleet (i.e. ""I've never used node support right up until my last 5 tries when FF was introduced, and still - my final kill didn't have any ships sparkled so there is that.")

    Obviously not saying I should clear in 5 attempts b/c friend fleet, but my point is that comparison isn't quite apples to apples. Maybe it takes you 60 something, maybe not with friend fleet all the time, maybe not. Regardless, I can't do 60 sorties. There's SOME time left, but not THAT much. Not enough time to go to zero then use regen (which is SLOW given costs of this map). Can't recover that fast, etc.

    So I have about 50k or so fuel to do this = maybe 30-ish. Got 23 LD so far WITH Friend Fleet and what I would think is a farily optimized fleet given lagging event + forum checks along with pretty good equipment. So I'd have about maybe 55 LD attempts on Hard. About 40% of the way there. This is not good. It's f'ing Spring 2016 again for me. Just can NOT catch a break on final EO (again, different b/c I'm using FFleet vs. those who cleared w/o it). At least back then, you wouldn't lose out on equipment if RNG trolled you on Hard if you dropped to Medium. Frankly, Summer 2017 is looking better than this, at least for me.

    As for Boss escorts for NB. PROBLEM is that AFTER Friend Fleet I may, if lucky, get Boss with both BB Hime meatshield. Can't get 3 in boss main to go down before NB starts. Hell, often it's 5 that are still around. That really hurts with Friend Fleet targeting.

    ----

    OK, I'll drop the Zuiun on Ise. No art spotting and it gives some nice bonuses so she isn't going to do much. :/ Hope that doesnt comeback to bite me along the way. Honestly, thinking hard about Proto 51cm twin +7 on Mutsu. She's close to cap, but well, head-on protection and/or chuuha (should still trigger if Nagato is OK).

    Bulge on Bismarck is fine. She had an RE anyway (I RE all ringed ships) so not a big deal. So far (don't screw me RNG), she's not been a problem. Gets taiha'd at boss, but that's at boss.

    I'll give Nelson Fleet a shot. Might as well at this point. Will use Musash K2 though with 46cm Kai +4, 51cm Twin +7, recon, AP shell & RADAR. Order is Nelson (flag), Saratoga, Iowa, Ise K2, Musashi, Suzuya. Don't have best guns for Nelson, but I'll see what I can do. 41cm (twin or triple) get +3 fit according to KC Wikia. Maybe that and 16"/50 Mk.7 (max). Slow BB tend to do OK with that gun (small penalty if that). Recon & AP of course.

    Lastly, well, RNG but still. I mean I look at these S-RANK WINS with what I'd think are some questionable escort comps. Hey congrats on clear, but I'm getting killed. Always have at least TWO ships around (boss and usually a BB Hime if not both if not both BB Hime and more).

    [+] Spoiler



    And also.... only 90hp hit from Johnston needed!?




    -----------
    @ohno133 Thanks for the reply & encouragement.

    Screw it, I'll go with Nelson fleet for a bit. Not like locking is going to matter at this point. Once I clear this godforsaken map, I'm DONE with this event. I'll look at comps to make sure I've got it right. Order listed above with some equips.

    Per above, will drop Zuiun for another fighter on Ise. :/ RIP artillery spotting in route. Doesn't matter so much at boss, but can help along the way. Well, I guess Musashi may help some to offset that if I go Nelson..

    Got it. Won't nerf USN DD. 3x Torps on both. Honestly, If not for RADAR space, I'm tempted to put in Ooi for Kasumi. Yeah, less damage, but also less bloody RNG with trigger and another opening torps for passing. Won't though, b/c need RADAR space.

    Not putting Kitakami as flag even IF NB TCI. She's (over) luck modded (66) so has by far best chance to trigger NB TCI. Problem is that it's ANOTHER bloody NB TCI ship and she's already at or very close (1-2pts) as is. Won't get that much more once you go over NB Cap. Some chuuha protection though, but if she or SB Roberts, Johnston or Kasumi are at chuuha, I'm kind of screwed anyway. 100-200pts isn't enough when boss has a few hundred left for NB. Seriously, I had a couple NB TCI on boss for about 400hp total and failed since boss had over 700 start of NB.

    IF I got NB TCI on Kitakami (see below, just not seeing a good enough reason to add MORE RNG), she's NOT going to be flag because she's highly luck modded. I'll keep escort order the same. Re. TCI load out, as I mentioned, she does cap out (or within 1-2pts) if Night Scout triggers anyway for NB DA. So it's a few points unless at chuuha and playing with more RNG which is the last thing I need. Frankly, I'm almost tempted to ADD Ooi with NB DA at this point. I hate these all NB TCI ship maps. So much RNG.


    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  8. #218
    Lieutenant Ink20's Avatar
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    @goesto11
    There is another option about Ise setup (I don't know if it will be of any help since i never used it and Ise's last slot seems too small even if used for a zuiun with lower shot rate).
    Main gun, radar, fighter and 2 zuiun give a very little more FP and enable a CI that may help with passing rate (probably not though).



  9. #219
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    [UPDATE] Finally, E-5 Hard Cleared. Stars align and Kasumi has huge NB TCI hit on boss. By far the best sortie I had all around.




    Part 2 Fleet used - NOTE there were changes after this. I put Kitkami 2nd and Kasumi put 5th. Think that is a better order (have 3rd best damage dealer 5th and best (potential) damage dealer last). Also I put NB TCI on Kitakmi as well last few sorties (see more below on that)


    Comments:
    1) Crazy RNG - I don't know how else to explain what happened with me when clearing this map. I get it's an RNG map, but what was so very weird was the night and day difference for me between Nagato + Mutsu CI Fleet ("Nagato Fleet") and Nelson Touch based fleet ("Nelson Fleet"). Obviously not the same, but best I can tell it's a "pick your poison" for which one on E-5 Hard as they are roughly the same. One's a little better at the boss, one's a little better for passing, but not THAT much difference.

    ---(A) Pass rate with Nagato Fleet before I switched ended up around 38% (got a bit better since my earlier post). Pass rate with Nelson fleet was about TWICE that. Already had RE (see below on that) on escort, was sparkling escort from the start, running double support, etc. That's it. Go from the Natago + Mutsu comp to Nelson Touch comp. Understand that Nelson comp probably does offer better passing rate, but difference was dramatic.To be fair, there were a few times I got AP at Node X with Nagato because I didn't go to 2x fighters on Ise, but fairly rare and not all resulted in retreats as it was (why I was loathe to switch and give up artillery spotting on Ise). The wide difference is not explained by this.

    ---(B) When I did get to the boss node with Nagato + Mutsu comp it was bad. Always C or even D Loss at end of day battle with main fleet absolutely hammered and usually Escort somewhat beaten up. Chuuha damage dealers are not helpful. Nelson Fleet - A-rank at end of day. Main fleet in better relative shape as was escort entering NB. With Nelson Fleet, I started to get close (outside of disastrous 1st attempt, but that's on me for a couple load out mistakes). Hell, I got close with Nelson at chuuha from Node X, but tried battle and was one RNG NB TCI away (boss under 300hp which is doable with a healthy historic NB TCI).

    Again, I know plenty who were able to clear just fine Nagato Fleet (seems most used that once info was out) so not sure why so much difference for me other than just RNG. All I can say is that given my results, would definitely have gone with Nelson Fleet from the start. Also damn good thing I was conservative with E-3 and saved Nelson along with Nagato & Mutsu for E-5.

    ---(C) RE + Goddess: Finally capitulated (not a fan of "need Goddess to clear") and put RE on 3 ships (had one on Bismarck & Kitakami already). During Nagato Fleet sorties, had several retreats due to Kasumi, Johnston or (rarely) Kitakami. ONCE was that triggered (Kasumi) and Nagato got taiha'd at Node X anyway). After that, never had Goddess trigger. Oh, I had escort ships hit to chuuha plenty, but then RNG just switched to taiha in main (Ise & Suzuya a lot) and/or taiha on Escort, but also one in Main. Thought about putting goddess on them before I switched to Nelson fleet. Never needed Goddess on Nelson fleet. Unreal.

    ---(D) FYI - No complaints about Friend Fleet. I always got the Akagi one which was fine. Good advice IMO by 211303 to use Saratoga CVB and get Akagi Friend Fleet

    ---(E) Bottom line = Should have switched to Nelson fleet sooner. Maybe Nagato Fleet worked better for others - wouldn't surprise me, but for me no question Nelson Fleet was better. I've played this game almost 5 years, and you can get a sense when things are not working right, and Nagato fleet wasn't working for me. :/

    2) Suggestions FWIW

    ---(A) Stick with name planes (Murata, Egusa, Iwai, etc.) on CVB. Had Iwai for airpower with Nagato Fleet. Switched to Suisei M22 634 AG Skilled (since going with 2x fighter on Ise). Got emptied along the way (that bad 1st sortie). Iwai never got emptied so put on Susei Egusa which also never got emptied.

    ---(B) Make sure to give Nelson very long range (e.g. use 381mm/50 Kai)

    ---(C) I went with 2x Toukai + 2x LBAS Bombers for Group 3. Only once do I recall LBAS not sinking troll sub in boss escort, and that time SB Roberts OASW was just enough to finish off sub. Maybe not that much difference, but do like having that extra LBAS bomber.

    ---(D) Still undecided on NB TCI for Kitakami. Mine's heavily luck-modded (would absolutely stick with NB DA for default luck). Reason I finally switched was seemed Kitakami was at chuuha a lot when attacking during NB (if not hit to taiha which happened quite a bit).

    ---(E) I do like my final order though one could argue putting default luck Kasumi as flag, and SB Roberts & Johnston last as highest (potential) damage dealers with 3x torps on both.

    3) Well over 100k fuel on this map NET of expeditions, daily/weekly rewards, etc. ALL sorties done with "better" Akagi Friend Fleet. Thankfully didn't get to resource soft cap (or below), but way things were going for so long (see above) had some serious doubts. Understand this may be seen as overly cynical, but there are statistical outliers. I failed Spring 2016 in a similar situation and things were not looking good until I switched fleets. Anyway, RNG is RNG and sometimes you end up on the wrong tail of the bell curve.

    For event totals, easily over 250k fuel spent (not sure exactly how much I was able to recover from expeditions & daily/weekly/monthly quest rewards but bet at least 270k fuel if not more), probably 800+ buckets (over 700 used, not sure how much I got back) - you get the idea. By far my most expensive event. Gonna be a challenge to recoup all those resources, try to rank T500 (2 of 3 months a quarter), build expensive fodder for some final improvements, and of course, my LSC hell with Maruyu fodder.

    4) Last, but certainly not least! Thanks to @211303 for guides/advice/etc., @NanashiYoukai for guides/reports (followed unlocking mostly. Agree with STF for Node X), @Kuropo (hope you cleared as you wanted), @Makikaki & @Kahlev (incl. salt reduction/encouragement), and big thanks to @ohno133 for Nelson Fleet example and convincing me to give Nelson fleet a try. Made a big difference and IMO why I was finally able to clear. Hopefully I included everyone.

    Best of luck to all still working on event including any farming. I'm out. Thankfully I got Fletcher finally since I'm burned out and don't have all that much fuel left anyway.


    Last edited by goesto11; 06-18-2019 at 02:00 AM. Reason: Final Update
    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  10. #220
    Captain ohno133's Avatar
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    @goesto11 Congratz, glad I was able to help.


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