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  1. #21
    Commander Makikaki's Avatar
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    For me, the whole event (mostly criticizing E5H before FF) is based on chances upon chances - increasing the already heavy RNG nature of the game to a whole new level.
    Double Re oranged two escort ships - especially 'muricans? Your chances drastically decreased in killing the boss.
    Nagato/Nelson BBCI didn't trigger? Read above.
    LBAS didn't decimate escort? Read 2 above.
    Poor TCI targeting/no triggers? Read 3 above.
    It's nothing new - do note BBCI being mandatory now - previously we didn't need another RNG dice roll for a chance to succeed.

    I'm not going to write another different view of all that has been said already - but if this trend continues, I'm sure the devs will implement another BS "touch" mechanic which has even lower proc chance than BBCI; say, double boss node support or some crap like that: sparkle everything to max morale to have a whooping 50% to proc!!! - oh, and it drains all fuel and ammo from ships used as support for da lulz.

    The game needs to increase the resource regen cap, or a boost in max from 300k to 400~500k - especially since the costs only increased, yet gathering never changed since the start.


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  2. #22
    Lieutenant Ink20's Avatar
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    I didn't like anything about FF during this event but the thing that bothers me the most is that they keep adding things that have the effect to limit a player's choice (e.g. use X because bonus, don't use Y because FF, etc.). In this aspect, E3H was a good map since both CTF and STF were viable, there were 2 main routes, FF didn't matter, it needed only 2-3 ships with bonus and no BBCI while E5H was a bad map.

    About the resource problem, I wonder if they are trying to sell them too (I bet they didn't make much money out of them).


    Last edited by Ink20; 06-28-2019 at 06:54 PM.

  3. #23
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @Ghoulvarine: Wow, Johnston & Fletcher right at the end. Nice. As to your suggestions, my thoughts FWIW:

    1) Yeah, that's a good idea. Some sort of sliding drop rate over a number of attempts, though it should be ONLY for first time drop (of course). Only issue is difficulty coding and such. Still, there's the difficulty/expense of farming itself to take into account IMO. Need to factor pass rate to target node, expense and success of A or S-rank as required into drop rate as well. Finally, really do wonder about Easy farming at E-4. S-rank required for drop like Casual, but Easy adds BB Water Oni meat-shield.

    The other thing which they did for E-5, and IMO should be done for all maps, is post event clear, you can use any ship on any map. So maybe code that when a player has cleared the event, the tagging system goes away. That will help a little with farming (e.g. can use some CLT on other maps, or use cheaper BB & such).

    2) This is a complex issue IMO. For example with Akagi. Could have used her on E-4 without any Friend Fleet issues AFAIK, and she gets highest bonus on the map (1.3x). To be fair though, jets helped on that map. Given the map title, I think the idea thematically was for players to use Akagi (or Kaga) on E-4 if not Cranes. Anyway, part of the problem was the late introduction of friend fleets to know this, thus like many I saved her for E-5. My HOPE is that with the new friend fleet system, friend fleets will be introduced when maps are introduced. That will help with planning fleets & locking.

    A bigger problem when it comes to using different ships is baked into the game - stats and/or special mechanics. There was one 7 map event were Abukuma K2 was the best choice statistically, especially if luck-modded for 5 maps. >_> As for CV, well, when are you really going to sort Graf or Aquila unless a huge historic bonus? How about Ryuuhou? In fact, little reason to sortie SB Roberts ever if not for the big historic bonus. NOT suggesting all ships of a certain class have exactly the same stats, but there are certainly some better than others for various reasons = "go to ships" while others gather dust. So what to do? Revamp a lot of ship stats for less outliers? We've seen some minimal bumps here and there, but nothing that much. To me, seems devs are using historic bonuses to make more ships viable for events.

    Lastly, I'm not sure how you'd install more "flavor" narrative beyond either the historic battle setting or "what if" setting. Perhaps you can give an illustrative example?

    3) Agree, something needs to be done about resources per my prior post, and bumping daily/weekly/monthly/quarterly rewards is one option, though I think there are other things to be done as well - both from the gain side and reduction of costs side. Otherwise, what's the difference? OK, gain more, but spend more = end up in the same place. Have to consider the cost side of the equation IMO. Won't reiterate some things I've said previously, but definitely a few things that can be done on the cost side without much difficulty.

    ------
    @Makikaki - Yes, more RNG, and more focus on special ships. I guess "Big 7" will all have there "BBCI" because Big 7, and now you need that for STF final maps.

    Raising soft cap is a good idea IMO, but the gains are not that fast when you're burning several hundred or even 1000 of something per sortie and you need a lot of sorties to get the job done. Still, I'd be up for say soft cap = 1/2 of HQ level.

    As for raising the hard cap, as I recall there wasn't one or it was very high early game and devs capped it. Problem with raising soft cap is that it very well may just introduce more resource "arms race" (for lack of a better term). OK, got 500k fuel, and now I burn 450k fuel in an event which I may if there's no consideration to increasing costs. That's not helping, especially if you don't increase returns from support expeditions. Even then, in terms of time spent doing ExpeditionColle, will there be any net change? Again, I have to stress both sides of the equation (gains & expense) should be examined.

    ----
    @Ink20: Agree. Per above comments, didn't have any major issues with E-1 to E-3 in terms of clearing (though perhaps E-2 Ishigaki farming could be improved. Maybe farming as well on E-2 or E-3. Didn't do any so don't know).

    And yes, there's always the money aspect to consider. Summer 2017 as I recall was all about RE & Goddess. Some were buying those. Here, not sure, though I bet some did buy some resources. Always have. Isn't there (or at least was) some warning implemented about not buying resources to do LSC way back?


    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  4. #24
    Lieutenant Ken G's Avatar
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    When I heard of one TTK who actually spent 500k+ fuel (that means topping up resources equivalent to 1k dollars) for farming Fletcher, it really reflects the grim situation of farming in this event. Maybe one needs to manage resources and know when to call it quits when resources drop to a dangerous level, but still it won't mask the fact that the overall dynamics for farming (sortie cost, repair cost, failed runs, lower-than-average drop rates) has dropped to an all-time low. IMO, as already mentioned by some people, there should be some form of safety net for farming so that people don't end up throwing resources into a black hole.



  5. #25
    Marshal Admiral ofi123's Avatar
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    @Ken G

    Hence why I'm in the easy/casual farm first group. Even if the harder difficulty have better rate, the cost usually doesn't justify the difference.



  6. #26
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken G View Post
    When I heard of one TTK who actually spent 500k+ fuel (that means topping up resources equivalent to 1k dollars) for farming Fletcher.
    Wow... I guess if you have the money..., but my first thought with that type of expense is what I could do in terms of PC upgrade. Also, makes me reconsider Ink20's comment above about how many bought resources. Curious as to what consumable purchases were like with this event.

    -----
    @ofi123: I also farm first on Easy/Casual, but it's not a panacea. 110k sorties on E-4 got me nothing, and that's a LOT of fuel, etc. burned that I don't have for an expensive E-4 & E-5 clear. So sure, it's worth trying - IF the map allows it (not all do, with prior maps having new drops locked behind multiple gauges and/or unlocking). However, no guarantee you get the drop and you need to have a mental stopping point in terms of being conservative for resources left to clear.


    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  7. #27
    Marshal Admiral ofi123's Avatar
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    @goesto11

    Thing is, after all the events my opinion for E-4 is that it's actually more forgiving than most other multi-phase event maps since you can straight up farm from the very start instead of needing to clear phase 1 and restart every 4-6 boss fights, plus fast+ makes the cost very low for a combined fleet. If anything it's just the drop rate that matters. If the drop rate is the same as new rare ships as all previous events, that's pretty much just RNG.

    But yeah, drop rate for new ship should be higher, either the base rate is higher or increasing rate for every number of A/S ranks milestone achieved.


    Last edited by ofi123; 06-29-2019 at 06:06 AM.

  8. #28
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @ofi123: Fair enough - E-4 (and E-2) were maps one could farm on Casual/Easy prior to clear. If it's a matter of just resetting the gauge, that's no big deal at all. Takes seconds to do. Much different if you have to then do unlocking steps let alone clearing one gauge to then get to the second boss for farming, etc.

    As for Fast+, not a fan. Combined fleet = really need 12x RE or you're nerfing yourself quite a bit with load out. Already enough RE spots in this event and "just buy more" gets into P2W territory. Also, "low cost" for combined fleet is meaningless IMO because whether or not it's relatively "low" makes zero difference when it comes to my resource counter. For example, single fleet costing 600 fuel/sortie (very expensive) has exactly the same resource drain as CTF costing 600 fuel/sortie (relatively "low"). It's still 600 fuel/sortie no matter what for either one.

    Almost forgot. Another thing that IMO definitely needs to change are boss nodes that don't always give a drop. Hate that. Easy enough for devs to adjust drop rates if needed, but boss nodes should always give a drop . Can scrap or use for fodder, etc. if drop isn't good. It's something vs. nothing.

    Do wonder about some sort of adjusting drop rate for x amount of S or A ranks. Interesting idea, but not sure how hard to implement (code).


    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  9. #29
    Admiral Ghoulvarine's Avatar
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    @goesto11

    1) Yeah it's almost similar to the mechanics in gatcha games but instead of just simply "summoning" for them, you do it by sortieing, which is a lot more work than simply clicking something. That is why it is more important to adopt this kind of pity system because of the trouble you have to put yourself into.

    2) Agree about the events having everything out in one go instead of breaking it into parts. If other more complex games can do it, so should KC be capable. I'm not opposed to their efforts making more ships viable for events, even if said ships would just have limited use to those events and not anywhere else in the normal maps and PvP. But this is where flavor texts can come in handy so people will have an idea that certain ships are encouraged to be used. To clarify, I will be using this event since it is fresh in our minds. So let's use E-4 as an example. In the main event screen when selecting E-4 and you can see the image with the title, they could add extra pages that you can read that contains the narrative. I'm no accomplished writer but I'll try my best--- Ooyodo: "Greetings Admiral. We have received reports that an enemy installation is present somewhere in the central Hawaiian islands. We expect submarine activity in the outlying seas surrounding the islands but we can probably bypass those waters once we've established a forward base of operations. We'll need proper air raid defenses so our land-based bombers can support our fleet uninterrupted. We should also contest control of the skies with the aid of our fighter squadrons. Enemy fleets involving an aircraft carrier demon and a seaplane tender princess seem to be patrolling the area as well. Annihilating these forces is mandatory if we are to establish our forward position firmly. To that end, we should also cripple the enemy's supply lines coming in somewhere in the northeast. Proper scouting is of utmost importance and I recommend sortieing a seaplane tender with the main fleet to provide additional support to our seaplanes. We should aim for thorough execution rather than hasty results."

    What kind of information did we just get from this flavor text? From the information given, we know we're dealing with an installation type enemy. We can expect the possibility of a new starting point that avoids sub nodes. To do so requires the following: achieving AS during an air raid and certain air nodes, S-ranking nodes J and S where the aircraft carrier demon and seaplane tender hime is found respectively, and S-ranking node T which contain transports. It also even gave the hint that a slow fleet is likely required to get to that node and must have an AV. Now I omitted the 33% HP requirement before the new starting position was opened because I think that was BS but you can see here how I would go about implementing flavor text in conjunction with clearing an event stage. And it doesn't even have to be Ooyodo speaking every time. It could be someone that is thematically featured for the stage like Akagi!

    3) The increasing costs to run fleets is unavoidable especially with new combat mechanics being introduced but I'm ok with our resource gathering simply catching up to reflect the ratio like it used to be. I had no problems before seeing my surplus stack up and I wasn't a hardcore perfect expeditionary to get so much more. But nowadays, I find it hard to keep my bauxite at a comfortable level and I actually force skewing my efforts to fuel as opposed to ammo because in the end, I end up using more fuel than ammo. However in all my time playing KC, I never got any of my resources over 200k except for steel.


    Last edited by Ghoulvarine; 06-29-2019 at 06:57 AM.
    "Without love, without anger, without sorrow, breath is just a clock ticking"

    Started: 11/14/14 LSC Graduation: 7/7/16 First Kandex Completion: 5/21/17
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  10. #30
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @Ghoulvarine:

    2) OK, so essentially more clues in the Ooyodo screen (and sure, different ship girl as a theme is fine as well). I'm OK with that, but there are those - generally hard-core/front-liners I assume given task at hand, that do like the "figuring out the puzzle" aspect. Frankly, I'd like to see more disclosure on mechanics such as BB gun fit or luck soft cap (done so too late now, but way back when) so players know for sure and can plan accordingly, but there's a theorycrafting group of players who like that sort of thing. Not saying your idea is bad - again I'm fine with it (though not like I can read kanji), just that I'm not sure if 100% of player base will want that level of detail.

    As for putting everything out in one go, I think the reason that they now delay EO maps is to keep the most hard-core players from blowing through events. It's a bit of a brake for game play. Whether that's a net positive or not, hard to say. Definitely though, now with friend fleet controls, need to have whatever friend fleets implemented when maps introduced.

    3) Yes and no. Obviously some mechanics will cost more (e.g. BBCI), but on a relative basis, that's not so expensive (and doesn't always trigger). What really adds up cost are single fleet vs. combined, running expensive BB (e.g. Iowa, Yamato-class and to a lesser extent Nagato-class K2), high plane shoot down (bauxite), LBAS costs - including cost to equip which needs to go away... now, repair costs (again expensive BB), and support expeditions. Then you factor in how many sorties for all of that. Vast majority of these things have been around quite a while.

    Didn't always come in at cap, but have or very close last few events (other than buckets. 2100 most I've had, but always at least 1500). It's a grind and a chore after a while. I get sick of nanny-ing expeditions (and sparkling ships). Longer expeditions often don't give nearly the same hourly rate. You run 11 for 250 bauxite. It's less than half hourly rate of Exped 6. So I run exped 6 a lot. And yes, fuel. I was scrounging for as much fuel as I could get towards the end.

    To be clear, I'm fine with bumping up expedition returns, especially some of the longer one, on top of an Expedition 2 for fuel (you get same amount, just fuel rather than ammo + chance at bucket). It's just that I think one still needs to keep costs in mind as well. Otherwise, it's just a resource "arms race" and doesn't really solve the core issue.


    Last edited by goesto11; 06-29-2019 at 07:25 AM.
    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


 

 

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