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  1. #161
    Vice-Admiral DLRevan's Avatar
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    @Danielosama That's somewhat misleading when we do actually have interesting gimmicks in the past, they've just become the norm for us.

    At such low hp ranges, this "fix" is not necessarily a straight buff in all situations. Several more things are now capable of oneshotting her to taiha, compared to before.


    @211303 I might not agree with them, but saying it's without reason isn't accurate. It's a way to keep people playing throughout the event. Game design wise, it's better to have people play less per day, but more days, than more per day but fewer days. That's why so many games have "pointless grind" at all, including this one.

    The "flaw' I see is that to make it effective, you have to make it unfeasible to complete without FF, and that is something I don't like.


    Last edited by DLRevan; 12-18-2019 at 11:04 AM.
    Murakumo 17th June 2015
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  2. #162
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLRevan View Post
    @Danielosama @211303 I might not agree with them, but saying it's without reason isn't accurate. It's a way to keep people playing throughout the event. Game design wise, it's better to have people play less per day, but more days, than more per day but fewer days. That's why so many games have "pointless grind" at all, including this one.
    It's not like someone dedicated enough to clear an event without ff has nothing to do with the event after clearing. E3 is the best powerleveling spot, and E1 is the DE paradise. People will be staying in these two spots throughout the event grinding.

    And even then, these are only the minority, what about the large bunch of people who just sit with their hands tied because they have to wait for FF/locking info? E1-3 can really be cleared in half a day easily. What's the players gonna do then while waiting for FF if this trend continues? This affects way more people tbh.


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  3. #163
    Captain Danielosama's Avatar
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    @DLRevan Lately gimmicks range from "absolutely necessary" (see Nelson and NagaMutsu touch) to "questionable at best" (sortie repair mechanic).
    I'm all for cool and interesting gimmicks, but they are pretty hit or miss >.>
    I'd love for them to do more with the Support Expeditions, maybe even a Repair Support Expedition or something along those lines.




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  4. #164
    Commander Makikaki's Avatar
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    @211303

    FF is all about stability and reliability - why would anyone truly bother doing anything hard mode related is beyond me. (looks at self)

    In terms of waiting for FF, what's the real purpose of final maps having chipping phases in the first place instead of simply having maybe 1000-1500 hp boss node with final form?
    All events since FF introduction became stale and repetitive, every final* map being a shitfest of rng thanks to overbloating enemy HP AND Armor for even more random madness - instead of actually bothering to create an interesting mechanic they introduced yet another cashshop "mechanic".

    Look at LBAS where it's a 100% resource lost for the player just because enemy air raids have to exist - yet the player can't do the same against their bases neither can you empty their carriers' slots even when the nodes you encounter in surface battle sends them.
    Support expeditions still consume everything even when not activating, especially the boss one... probability is that they didn't bother to create a separate interface for their use so we're stuck with basic expedition code.



  5. #165
    Vice-Admiral DLRevan's Avatar
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    @211303 Well, you can farm for De Ruyter and Houston? You can do that after completing too, yes. But you can also do that before, which is what everyone waiting is probably doing.

    It's just psychology. From a player's perspective, it doesn't make sense because you'll be doing the same things anyway, just in a different order, plus added anxiety over being able to complete the event in time or having the right ships.

    From a designers perspective, you want people to actually finish the "meat" over the course of the event time, meaning complete the event in a more gradual timeline over the event, while sampling the 'potatoes" along the way (farming, grinding, quest clearing, etc). That keeps the event on their minds, and the game as well. Even the anxiety is a part of the plan.

    There are also groups of people who burnout quickly trying to blitz the event, because they don't manage their resources well, when this game really is about managing resources. Or groups of people who twiddle their thumbs doing nothing till there's a week left in the event even without FF. Making a distinction between a part of the event that is clearable without FF and one that practically requires it gives them "sub-objectives", which motivationally is better.

    I am not saying I agree with the way they implemented FF or locks, because it can be done better for sure. I am saying I understand the reasoning behind doing it all. If I could get players to twiddle their thumbs waiting for content, frankly this is a good thing. You're far more likely to ditch a game that you can blitz, even if you're "happier".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Makikaki View Post

    In terms of waiting for FF, what's the real purpose of final maps having chipping phases in the first place instead of simply having maybe 1000-1500 hp boss node with final form?
    I mean, I just feel like this is making my point for me. If players made the game, resources could be restored in a day so you'd be on even footing everyday, ships wouldn't sink, repairs are automatic and free, bosses only need to be killed once, all numbers would be fixed to remove RNG totally, all ships are rewards and not drops, all equipment are non-event exclusive, etc.

    Everyone would have nothing to complain about. Because nobody would play the game longer than 3 months, frankly.


    Last edited by DLRevan; 12-18-2019 at 11:55 AM.

  6. #166
    Captain Danielosama's Avatar
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    @DLRevan But, if people don't play until FFs are added, is that a win for them? How does that benefit them at all? People waiting for content will just play something else meanwhile (unless you rank or something like that).
    I get that making it too easy would be bad, but some maps will still be quite hard even with FFs, they are just absurd without FFs.

    We went from: clear event-->wait for next event
    to: clear MOs-->wait for FFs-->clear EOs-->wait for next event

    So, granted, if their objective was to artificially lengthen Events, then they suceeded. I don't like at all how it's done, but they succeeded all right.




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  7. #167
    Commander Makikaki's Avatar
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    @Danielosama

    Waiting for FFs is the logical decision (there is 0 con by doing so unless someone's ego says otherwise), unless someone has a tight work schedule.
    It's not bad, however every event seems to be designed around FF ever since their introduction.

    When I first started back almost 6 years ago I liked that I didn't have to dedicate too much time for it to play it at a decent pace - this is regarding time spent of events ofc.



  8. #168
    Vice-Admiral DLRevan's Avatar
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    @Danielosama As long as you didn't quit the game while waiting, yes it's a win for them. As in, as long as you'll be back. The longer you play something, the less you feel you can get out of the game. And the way people think is that as long as you're waiting to "complete" something, you're still playing even if you're not physically doing so. Does that make sense?

    Better options exist for extending this "play period". Like introducing structured post-content (i.e. not farming) like some kind of challenge or ranking map. But a lot of these options...at least personally I find it difficult to think of ways to integrate into KC.

    Of course keeping people waiting and building up anxiety especially, is not without downsides. Go too far and you build up long term resentment for example...something which I see leaking out from us here and there. Game design is a balance of factors, not a set of golden rules, and often some of those factors is degree of player discontent.


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    Murakumo 17th June 2015
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  9. #169
    Captain Danielosama's Avatar
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    @DLRevan Yeah I get you. I don't like it, but I get what you mean.
    I feel like sooner or later they'll have to find something else to extend playtime beyond just waiting for FFs.
    Maybe an Event Shop system a la AL could do the trick (shrug)


    Last edited by Danielosama; 12-18-2019 at 12:56 PM.


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  10. #170
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    Christmas CG for De Ruyter and a certain DE will be introduced in this evening.

    Edit: DE turns out to be Etorofu. They should be implemented already.


    Last edited by 211303; 12-20-2019 at 10:37 AM.
    The sexiest bridge ever made.

 

 

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