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  1. #51
    Vice-Admiral Kuropo's Avatar
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    Just checked Yuubari Kai Ni (Toku/D) stats. Compared to Yura and Abukuma, Yuubari Kai Ni Toku has very similar surface combat stats as they have. All three have 56 firepower, but in terms of the torpedo stat Yuubari Kai Ni Toku sits in between the other two. With a base luck of 30, Yuubari Kai Ni Toku looks to be a good alternative to Abukuma for opening torpedo + TCI. Not to mention, she has extra slots for more versatility and/or to somewhat close that night battle firepower gap with Abukuma (with machine guns/radars with firepower stat and accuracy).


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  2. #52
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    ok, now that we know about the AACI for k2 as well, I have to say the toku version is just vastly superior generally speaking.

    K2's characteristics is her AACI and being able to carry big radar. The former is just meh AACI, while the former doesn't really matters these days.

    K2 D's characteristics is auto OASW without radar and being able to equip large sonar. However, the other two version can also OASW easily with 2 or more slots pre marriage, and while K2 D allows for easier one slot OASW, it's not like her k2 D for can achieve much with the rest of the slots.

    K2 toku, on the other hand, pretty much performs all the roles of ABKM, but with two spare slot for either radar or one slot OASW for married ships. While ABKM will perform better if we only consider the role of night attacker and opening torp, something like this for Yuubuari will still cap at night with her TCI (after I get the new midget sub), while only having slightly weaker opening torp comparing to ABKM.


    That is not to say ABKM is phrased out of cos. As we all know, the real meta these days is historical bonus, and ABKM just have a much more decorated record IRL. I would say the two ships are actually nicely balanced.


    Last edited by 211303; 01-15-2020 at 01:00 AM.
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  3. #53
    Vice-Admiral Kuropo's Avatar
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    If Yuubari Kai Ni (regular) really doesn't have a special AACI type, I don't think this version of her is particularly useful. This is supposed to be her AACI-centric version, but her actual AA stat is only 10 higher than her other two forms. She does retain a very high ASW stat (80+?). Considering this and the fact that she cannot equip seaplanes, she is very similar to Isuzu, "just" with 2 more slots than the latter. Unless, I'm overlooking something, I think Yuubari's regular Kai Ni is just a better Isuzu Kai Ni which is still quite niche.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 211303 View Post
    ok, now that we know about the AACI for k2 as well, I have to say the toku version is just vastly superior generally speaking.

    K2's characteristics is her AACI and being able to carry big radar. The former is just meh AACI, while the former doesn't really matters these days.

    K2 D's characteristics is auto OASW without radar and being able to equip large sonar. However, the other two version can also OASW easily with 2 or more slots pre marriage, and while K2 D allows for easier one slot OASW, it's not like her k2 D for can achieve much with the rest of the slots.

    K2 toku, on the other hand, pretty much performs all the roles of ABKM, but with two spare slot for either radar or one slot OASW for married ships. While ABKM will perform better if we only consider the role of night attacker and opening torp, something like this for Yuubuari will still cap at night with her TCI (after I get the new midget sub), while only having slightly weaker opening airstrike comparing to ABKM.


    That is not to say ABKM is phrased out of cos. As we all know, the real meta these days is historical bonus, and ABKM just have a much more decorated record IRL. I would say the two ships are actually nicely balanced.
    There is indeed no question that her Toku version out of all three forms is the one to go with. Her Kai Ni D version isn't very noteworthy indeed if you consider that all three forms are easily able to unlock OASW ability and OASW without any ASW equipment is quite poor against the stronger abyssal submarines.
    The regular Kai Ni isn't noteworthy indeed, if she indeed doesn't have to ability to perform a special AACI type. As noted before, this one only has 10 AA higher than other two forms. GFCS is quite on par with the larger AA radars. Though, I believe +10 T21 Kai AA radar still does the best job in terms of fleet AA.
    As for the Kai Ni Toku, not only are her surface combat stats very similar to Abukuma and Yura, she also has decent default luck stat and the ability to equip Daihatsus. It seems that Yuubari Kai Ni Toukai can even equip T2 tanks too!
    The extra slots are very valuable not only for ASW equipment and/or Searchlight, but also the "surface radar routing requirement" we are seeing more often in recent events.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Is this the best Yuubari Kai Ni AACI setup?
    Note that she is still unimproved and therefore still has +6 AA to grow. Also, that 25mm concentrated AA gun can be moved to a reinforcement expansion slot and a GFCS equipped in 5th slot instead.


    Last edited by Kuropo; 01-14-2020 at 10:16 PM.
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  4. #54
    Commander Makikaki's Avatar
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    @Kuropo

    Wouldn't 3 maxed ducky guns be better with sk+sg and 2 bofors/2 maxed 25mm conc?
    Hmm... seems like Atlanta's better gun doesn't have a penalty on melon.

    double edit:



    I don't think any ship can go higher in terms of prop shot down (99.5% with this set up, if only I'd bother to upgrade another 25mm) than Yuubari kai ni with AACI, well... if that is something worth talking about.
    Attached Images Attached Images


    Last edited by Makikaki; 01-15-2020 at 12:08 AM.

  5. #55
    Commander Ink20's Avatar
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    @Kuropo
    T42 AA radar +10 should do the best job, though.



  6. #56
    Vice-Admiral Kuropo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makikaki View Post
    @Kuropo

    Wouldn't 3 maxed ducky guns be better with sk+sg and 2 bofors/2 maxed 25mm conc?
    Hmm... seems like Atlanta's better gun doesn't have a penalty on melon.

    double edit:



    I don't think any ship can go higher in terms of prop shot down (99.5% with this set up, if only I'd bother to upgrade another 25mm) than Yuubari kai ni with AACI, well... if that is something worth talking about.
    While settting up that AACI setup, I have considered equipping Akizuki guns but wanted to keep night battle double attacks. Thinking about it now, might as well have gone all-in on AACI. Maxed out T21 Kai or T42 AA radars are still better for AACI though. I should probably also unlock that expansion slot of my Yuubari. Can she equip anything special in that slot, more specifically the 8cm gun?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ink20 View Post
    @Kuropo
    T42 AA radar +10 should do the best job, though.
    Yes, you are absolutely correct. I actually forgot about these radars since they have fallen out of service in my base. I am in the fortunate position to have 3 FuMO and a handful of GFCS radars (and the SK+SG).
    I don't have any T42s upgraded. I guess that upgrade path opened up too late for me..
    T42 AA radar +10 seems to be very marginally better than T21 Kai radar +10 though.


    Last edited by Kuropo; 01-15-2020 at 12:38 AM.
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  7. #57
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    Big news is Yuubari K2 of course, but a couple things before I forget. First, was pleasantly surprised to see 8" triple Mk.9 (and mod 2) added to improvement. That does impact my opinion of the past event's equipment rewards (edited my comment in thread accordingly). Will definitely add that to my improvement to do list. Not 100% sure though whether you can upgrade the base version to Mod 2 or not. Definitely want Mod 2 (and improve to +9 assuming same bonus progression as other 20.3cm guns). TBD on the CA NB bonus, but I'd be surprised if 8" triple gets it (SKC34 don't for some reason). Still, IIRC, you get +10 NB accuracy with one 20.3cm (base, No.2 or No.3) and +15 with 2. Do lose +5 (if I'm right), but +10 accuracy is a lot with high-level ships so probably worth the extra +2 FP (and whatever fit bonus there may be).

    Also noted that there's a shiny new Ginga to be had with the Setsubun quest. That's was a nice surprise. Already have 3 LBAS recon (enough IMO) so will pass on that, but I'll gladly take another Ginga. Availability of both certainly good news for newer players as well.

    On to the main event.

    Quote Originally Posted by 211303 View Post
    ok, now that we know about the AACI for k2 as well, I have to say the toku version is just vastly superior generally speaking.

    K2's characteristics is her AACI and being able to carry big radar. The former is just meh AACI, while the former doesn't really matters these days.

    K2 D's characteristics is auto OASW without radar and being able to equip large sonar. However, the other two version can also OASW easily with 2 or more slots pre marriage, and while K2 D allows for easier one slot OASW, it's not like her k2 D for can achieve much with the rest of the slots.

    K2 toku, on the other hand, pretty much performs all the roles of ABKM, but with two spare slot for either radar or one slot OASW for married ships. While ABKM will perform better if we only consider the role of night attacker and opening torp, something like this for Yuubuari will still cap at night with her TCI (after I get the new midget sub), while only having slightly weaker opening airstrike comparing to ABKM.


    That is not to say ABKM is phrased out of cos. As we all know, the real meta these days is historical bonus, and ABKM just have a much more decorated record IRL. I would say the two ships are actually nicely balanced.
    Not sure what the AACI numbers are since not on KC Wikia (not a complaint, Yuubari K2 just came out), but I would have been surprised anyway if Yuubari K2 AACI was great given how many meh K2 AACI are out there. Plus, we just got an AACI CL in Atlanta (and for Atlanta, that's pretty much her only thing). Not really sure why we need 3 K2 versions (plenty of other ships to K2 Tanaka), but is what it is. 5 slots really surprised me. Yubari's been a 4-slot CL pretty much since the start of the game, but I always thought there was some correlation between size of the ship and # of slots. To me, 5 slots on Yamato-class K2 makes total sense as they are massive (and very expensive to sortie) ships. I know game is game, but trying to reconcile some sort of consistent policy & application of such here. Nevermind.

    At any rate, strong K2 for Yuubari (who was pretty much gathering dust for quite some time due to better 4-slot CL), and K2 Toku does indeed seem the way to go. What 211303 said about not a 100% complete replacement for ABKM K2 makes sense IMO - K2 Toku is not a complete replacement for ABKM. Not only chance of event historic map bonuses (definitely a thing these days), but I think it's worth noting that Toku version has slow speed (according to KC wikia). It's not really a big issue thanks to 5 slots (guess I'll burn an RE on Yuubari now), but that will take out a slot if you need a fast fleet for branching. Furthermore, we've had events where ABKM K2 would be the preferred CL on multiple maps (reason so many have ABKM K2 clones). ABKM K2 is still quite useful, it's just now there is viable alternative. Lastly, large jump in luck to 30 does help those of us with an increasing list of ships to luck mod. (just gotta get Maruyu).

    Not sure when Yahagi K2 is coming out, but do hope she gets similar favorable treatment like Yuubari.


    Last edited by goesto11; 01-15-2020 at 05:16 AM.
    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  8. #58
    Commander Ferreae's Avatar
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    @goesto11 IRL Yuubari was a crammed testbed, and those in-game higher slots are heavily limited to what she can have in them. At least the daihatsu variant: she goes slow, only can have guns in three slots, last slot is just small radar, AA, or rations, etc.
    She's a swiss army knife, not the firepower queen of 1red4yellow dakka.... slot 4/5 seem more 'handle radar for routing', or maybe 'a sonar for trash sub nodes ..and a radar'



  9. #59
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    @Makikaki
    Hmm... seems like Atlanta's better gun doesn't have a penalty on melon.
    @Makikaki Eh, I am sure she would receive penalty from any of the Atalanta gun.

    Also, AA stat and equipment shouldn't affect AACI triggering rate at all, unless the extra equipment gives rise to new types of AACI that can trigger simultaneously. More AA equipment helps by providing more shotdown rate in fixed and proportional shot down only. How do you get the 99.5%?

    The AACI I know she could trigger in that build include:

    API_5: special HA+special HA+AA radar (generic) (there are other generic AACI, but this is the best one)
    API_16: ha+mg+AA radar

    These two cannot trigger together.

    - - - Updated - - -
    @Kuropo Pretty much, although you do not need that many to fulfill the requirement. Just 2 HA gun and AA radar or HA+mg+AA radar is enough.


    And again, better stat doesn't affect AACI in any way. If the equipment triggers the same AACI, the quality of the AACI remains unchanged no matter how you change the stat.


    Last edited by 211303; 01-15-2020 at 04:44 AM.
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  10. #60
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @Ferreae; I knew she was a test bed (and yes, not an FP stonk ship) and also a small CL given size/displacement. My understanding from basically when I started playing 5+ years ago is that the reason she had 4-slots at Kai was a nod to being said test bed (certainly wasn't size/displacement). An exception to the general rule of larger ships (incl. ship classes) = more slots. Amatsukaze was an engine test bed so if Amatsukaze K2 - expect a 4th slot limited to boilers? Isn't Shimakaze considered at least somewhat of an experimental DD as well? Is one of a kind. Still not sure how test bed quite = more slots. Tashkent (very close in size/displacement to Yuubari) has 4 slots. Thought 4-slot was due to being a very large DD, but maybe I'm wrong and it was also experimental/type of test bed? Same goes for Ooyodo. Very large for a "light" cruiser so figured size was reason for 4 slots? One off production though so again maybe looking at it the wrong way. Experimental(ish?), though that still brings up Amatsukaze & Shimakaze (if the ever would get an actual K2). If Ooyodo gets K2, expect 5 slots as well? Just trying to figure out the process here.

    At any rate, was NOT suggesting Yuubari too "OP", but simply surprised at a random 5th slot (IMO - seems I'm alone on that point) . As for the 4th & 5th slot limitations, that certainly is a major factor in the analysis. I just converted mine to K2 Toku and discovered those limitations. Don't think my torps (incl. Quint Oxy +7) will get her to cap without help from NB Scout trigger, searchlight & other bonuses. However can probably get there with what I have. Still... IDK - would simply having only Toku version for K2 (fast not slow) with 4 slots (same as before - whatever you want except no plane slots) be too OP? Doesn't seem like the other two variations offer any compelling reason to have other than Kandex.

    In the end - got it. Game is game including corresponding game mechanics such as more, but limited, main slots. I'll try to do a better job of keeping that in mind going forward.


    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


 

 

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