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  1. #14611
    Rear-Admiral firemagnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    So you're bitching about not being able to do the hard parts of an event with what amounts to a starter account?
    Actually, no, but your take on that is my fault for being distracted and not clarifying my observations. My comments overall were about progression and the mileage were comparative overall. There's a lot more freedom of action in comparative games, particularly with respect to the amount of time one can spend on one session and, therefore, about how far one can get in that single session.

    So, for instance, to follow up on your comment above the value of a servant vs characters in Valkyrie Connect (VC):

    1. You correctly stated that an individual drop has more value in Fate/GO, because barring materials you have no other barriers to leveling your character (so long as you have the required materials). However, this is muted by the fact that the combat system, particularly in event battles, takes a first-past-the-goalpost system with respect to NPs, making them centerpieces to winning a match. If you so happen to lose because you have no evade special commands or simply can't wear down a boss' hp fast enough, you then have to either a) pay premium currency to continue or b) forfeit AP that you cannot replenish without waiting.

    By comparison, VC softens the blow by enabling players to (very slowly) acquire character tokens (though not for all characters) through boss battles and events. The acquisition of a given character will open up a series of quests for them, whereby the tokens needed to rank up their abilities and special moves can be acquired without having to pay into the system again. Further, there are an assortment of daily quests and event rewards that are constantly fed into the system, enabling the player to keep on engaging with the system for longer, increasing their enjoyment of the game. By comparison of levels, my character in VC as compared to F/GO is a lower level, but has far more AP (1760/100 vs 94/70). I have an additional 600 AP in reserve on VC thanks to event rewards and daily quests. A comparison of event AP use should further illustrate my point:

    Costs, Event, VC vs FGO:

    novice: 10 vs 20
    novice II: 15 vs N/A
    Intermediate: 20 vs 25
    Advanced: 30 vs 40
    Advanced 50+:40 vs 40

    Whereas a player may collect AP via daily quests in VC, there is no such system in F/GO. Hence, F/GO is far more aggressively monetized, and purposefully places roadblocks to encourage (read: attempt to force) players into purchasing more. F/GO's cost curves are also sharper, its progression more limited, and its battle system is designed to feed into this by providing an emphasis on cardinality of NPs. Lose a battle in F/GO and you're done for the next three hours, or can progress than much less with your characters or story. No such roadblock exists in VC.


    TL;DR version of this is that I'm frustrated at how obvious and agressive the monetization in F/GO is; it prevents me from playing the game as much as I would like to, and thereby ultimately prevents me from enjoying the game as much as I would want to.



  2. #14612
    Admiral Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemagnet View Post
    1. You correctly stated that an individual drop has more value in Fate/GO, because barring materials you have no other barriers to leveling your character (so long as you have the required materials). However, this is muted by the fact that the combat system, particularly in event battles, takes a first-past-the-goalpost system with respect to NPs, making them centerpieces to winning a match. If you so happen to lose because you have no evade special commands or simply can't wear down a boss' hp fast enough, you then have to either a) pay premium currency to continue or b) forfeit AP that you cannot replenish without waiting.
    While being able to finish fights quickly is nice for farming purposes, NPs aren't the end-all-be-all way to ending a fight. Crit hits, particularly with Buster cards and/or with Crit Damage Up buffs can provide NP-level damage on a more regular basis. If you can't kill an enemy quickly, it's also possible to buff Defense to the point that you simply don't take any damage from an enemy's NP.

    By comparison, VC softens the blow by enabling players to (very slowly) acquire character tokens (though not for all characters) through boss battles and events. The acquisition of a given character will open up a series of quests for them, whereby the tokens needed to rank up their abilities and special moves can be acquired without having to pay into the system again. Further, there are an assortment of daily quests and event rewards that are constantly fed into the system, enabling the player to keep on engaging with the system for longer, increasing their enjoyment of the game. By comparison of levels, my character in VC as compared to F/GO is a lower level, but has far more AP (1760/100 vs 94/70). I have an additional 600 AP in reserve on VC thanks to event rewards and daily quests. A comparison of event AP use should further illustrate my point:
    Sounds to me that VC and other games are based on the assumption that people regularly sink a lot of time into playing them, unless there's some sort of auto-play function. GO is nice because extreme farming sessions don't need to be done, in and out of events.

    Costs, Event, VC vs FGO:

    novice: 10 vs 20
    novice II: 15 vs N/A
    Intermediate: 20 vs 25
    Advanced: 30 vs 40
    Advanced 50+:40 vs 40

    Whereas a player may collect AP via daily quests in VC, there is no such system in F/GO. Hence, F/GO is far more aggressively monetized, and purposefully places roadblocks to encourage (read: attempt to force) players into purchasing more. F/GO's cost curves are also sharper, its progression more limited, and its battle system is designed to feed into this by providing an emphasis on cardinality of NPs. Lose a battle in F/GO and you're done for the next three hours, or can progress than much less with your characters or story. No such roadblock exists in VC.
    The only time I've ever been low on AP restoring items in GO is when I was trying to get the last Halloween Princess CE drop I needed to max LB it during the first time that Halloween event was offered. Since then, I don't think I've ever dipped below 50 gold apples, and generally get by just spending the bronze and silver apples given to us by events.

    TL;DR version of this is that I'm frustrated at how obvious and agressive the monetization in F/GO is; it prevents me from playing the game as much as I would like to, and thereby ultimately prevents me from enjoying the game as much as I would want to.
    The only gacha-like game I can compare GO to is Kancolle, and I'll never go back to Kancolle. While the extent of what you can do in Kancolle without spending money is impressive, the amount of time spent focused on Kancolle itself is ridiculous. As for GO, any money I spend is spent chasing after a new Servant that catches my interest, and nothing else.



  3. #14613
    Captain Ren's Avatar
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    @firemagnet, Your argument for the monetization of FGO in the form of AP is flawed in my opinion as most people don't even spend quartz on replenishing AP. For high level players, they are given enough apples to almost never require spending quartz for AP. For example, my apple stock is at 402 gold / 98 silver / 72 bronze apples.For low level players one round of 40 AP daily EXP quest will often give you enough exp to allow you to level up. As you mentioned previously you were rushing through the story, and until Solomon chapter arrives all you really need to do is advance the story slowly when there are no events since the only event requirement is for you to have finished Fuyuki. However you are assuming that most FGO players play similarly to your own personal play style which isn't true. monetization through gacha, desire sensor and RNGebus is spot on though.

    And again as Trubo has stated, R/UC/C servants are fully capable of clearing the story and events. For FGO it is all about the synergy between the servants on your team.
    An example would be Goetia fight with 1 star servants... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ktyv8wI9pE
    He/She cleared it more easily than I did with 5 and 4 star servants ~.~

    IMO compared to VC (currently at lv 52), FGO requires more strategizing because of enemy variation. For VC I either can or cannot win against AI bosses because of my character's levels and it feels as if my character choices don't matter too much, granted I played through using trial and error without checking wiki. I find FGO battles more satisfying compared to VC, though I like the way characters in VC are more readily attainable and the game allows players to increase their character rarity (and stats) through quests. I find FGO farming a chore, while I find VC battles a chore (maybe I'm playing it wrong? lol).

    On a side note, the 1700 or so AP in VC will be gone in a flash when your characters reach purple tier, as each orb strengthening requires hundreds of AP if not a thousand plus to get the various orb fragments necessary to make the orb.


    Last edited by Ren; 01-08-2018 at 05:08 AM.

  4. #14614
    Commander hidahos's Avatar
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    Is it worth to invest event 4* Saber Lilly? Got the first at 50k event point. The next one is 300k (3rd 500k)
    The repeatable quest yield 2,5k event point for 40 stamina with a 5 saber team...

    And Lilly feels weak at lvl31 compared with friendly lvl 90 Attila doomsdaymachine.



  5. #14615
    Captain Ren's Avatar
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    @hidahos, Saber Lily is one of the weakest 4 star servants. So it depends on whether you absolutely must have welfare servants at NP5. If you have enough AP and apples and the time to grind and get all copies of her then go for it as she is obtainable for only a limited time. I play the Japanese version and since I started after Saber Wars I still don't have her.

    If you must use her, her mana burst is good at high skill levels to boost NP damage, her NP at lvl 5 heals herself for 5000 HP, and her np generation up skill affects the whole party so you can use her to support your other party members. At skill lvl 10 her first skill generates 14 stars which isn't bad (but not worth the cost in leveling that skill to lvl 10). However her hp and atk stats are very low. Overall other 4 star sabers will outshine her in terms of skills and stats.

    P.S real doomsday machine


    Last edited by Ren; 01-08-2018 at 01:52 PM.

  6. #14616
    Admiral Trubo's Avatar
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    @hidahos

    She's a slightly stronger R with the cost of a SR. Can be useful for farming if you only have Fergus for AoE Saber.



  7. #14617
    Rear-Admiral firemagnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren View Post
    @hidahos, Saber Lily is one of the weakest 4 star servants. So it depends on whether you absolutely must have welfare servants at NP5. If you have enough AP and apples and the time to grind and get all copies of her then go for it as she is obtainable for only a limited time. I play the Japanese version and since I started after Saber Wars I still don't have her.

    If you must use her, her mana burst is good at high skill levels to boost NP damage, her NP at lvl 5 heals herself for 5000 HP, and her np generation up skill affects the whole party so you can use her to support your other party members. At skill lvl 10 her first skill generates 14 stars which isn't bad (but not worth the cost in leveling that skill to lvl 10). However her hp and atk stats are very low. Overall other 4 star sabers will outshine her in terms of skills and stats.

    P.S real doomsday machine
    So what I see here is:

    1. Get servant
    2. spend weeks grinding the fuck out of their skills
    3. stack buffs
    4. exploit what appear to be hard-to-obtain CEs
    5. profit

    Seems to rely on RNG a bit too much, still, though it's nice to know that skills can be stacked endlessly and ground out until they have very short recharge times.


    Last edited by firemagnet; 01-09-2018 at 04:28 AM.

  8. #14618
    Captain Ren's Avatar
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    @firemagnet, There is no doubt that skills play an exceedingly big role in the game. Skill levels on the other hand will be useful as max skill level decreases cooldown by two turns, however it is not necessary for all but the hardest bosses (and even then with the correct team skill lvl 10 isn't necessary). Getting skills to level 10 costs a lot of QP, materials and effort, so I'd recommend getting good skills to level 6 first.

    And yes if you can stack buffs stack them, which is why servant synergy is so important.

    Regarding CEs, the one used by the two Merlins were not hard to obtain, they were CEs you get from events so when that particular event comes around you will get them.



  9. #14619
    Admiral Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemagnet View Post
    So what I see here is:

    1. Get servant
    You don't need Jeanne Alter to kill the demon pillar enemies in that part of the game. Whale just showing off because they can. During that part of the game, a Servant's bond level provided a general purpose Power Up, which made those overly inflated HP bars less of a hassle.

    2. spend weeks grinding the fuck out of their skills
    She had been available for over 6 months by that point, with multiple events providing materials for her skills either from the shop or from relatively easy to farm event nodes. Having mats for Merlin is more impressive, but then those demon pillars were literal mat pinatas, so coming by them during it wasn't much of an issue unless you were asleep/unavailable to kill a certain demon pillar (poor Barbatos ;_;)

    4. exploit what appear to be hard-to-obtain CEs
    No idea what that Jeanne Alter was using, but Golden Catches a Carp was from either Rashoumon or Onigashima from event shop/reward list and drops.

    Seems to rely on RNG a bit too much, still, though it's nice to know that skills can be stacked endlessly and ground out until they have very short recharge times.
    About the only random thing there was Jeanne Alter's available cards. Otherwise, pretty trivial and repeatable.


    Last edited by Trubo; 01-09-2018 at 06:21 AM.

  10. #14620
    Vice-Admiral Mikan's Avatar
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    You guys were talking about Jeanne Alter. She returns, with new costume. :)



    http://news.fate-go.jp/2018/re_counterfeit/



 

 

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