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  1. #11
    Moderator Leyana's Avatar
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    Re: Abridged Event Ship Guide for new players - I.E. "What Ships Should I Get?"

    @FireKiller87 That penalty is nothing for normal fleets and negligible once your ships hit 80+. Hell mine are using 46cms regularly and still smash shit.



  2. #12
    Rear-Admiral nobununga's Avatar
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    Re: Abridged Event Ship Guide for new players - I.E. "What Ships Should I Get?"

    @EchIII

    First off, I'd like go give you a bit of encouragement and an upvote - it takes a lot of courage to put out a guide like this since there's plenty of grey areas for disagreement. I don't know why people downvoted you - that's a slack thing to do.

    I know the whole red-yellow-green colour scheme is meant to help the increasingly larger part of the population that goes TL;DR these days and seeks out the green bits first. But it's just not working out, as some people have pointed out. The red and green bits are particularly hard to read. Maybe you could try a black background and red/green/yellow lettering, but I'm not sure about it either. I like everything black and white, and Ctrl+F friendly, you see :3

    In terms of content - and this isn't just directed at you, it's also directed at the people giving you feedback, I think the reason why the guide is a little all over the place is that there's no concrete definition of a "new" player. If you're talking about a totally green admiral, then about 30% of the list doesn't even need to be there by sheer rarity and difficulty to get, and there's suddenly an emphasis on low-rarity ships that provide a boost a Kai or have a low kai ni remodel and BP considerations. There's also levelling considerations since they may not have access to grindspots or good PvPs and even if they do, they may lack the resources/SS to utilise them.




    Wedding anniversary - Unryuu: 13/11/2016, Yuudachi: 03/12/2016, Shigure: 28/12/2016, Shouhou: 13/01/2017, Fusou: 14/01/17, Yamashiro: 14/01/17, Atago: 14/01/17, Jun'you: 14/01/17, Bismarck: 29/01/17, Ayanami: 31/01/17, Jintsuu: 01/02/17, Mutsu: 04/03/17, Ashigara: 24/03/17, Kirishima: 29/03/17, Hiyou: 06/04/17, Saratoga: 06/04/17, Musashi: 23/04/17, Takao: 26/04/17

  3. #13
    Kaigun Shousa (海軍少佐) mumei-chan's Avatar
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    Re: Abridged Event Ship Guide for new players - I.E. "What Ships Should I Get?"

    Is Isuzu's AACI really that bad? What is the minimum shot down plane number for her AACI, what is her AACI trigger rate (I heard rumors it might be very high)? If someone had some sources on Isuzu's (new) AACI, that would be great.


    More than 50% of LSC ships obtained! :-D

    What I want: Uzuki, Taigei, Nagato, hotel, sushi, Taihou, Biscuit, zombie girl, Akashi, yodo, Shoukaku, Shioi.

  4. #14
    Admiral FireKiller87's Avatar
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    Re: Abridged Event Ship Guide for new players - I.E. "What Ships Should I Get?"

    Quote Originally Posted by HzVee View Post
    @FireKiller87
    I agree that remodeling for the equipment is not that important, because most basic needs can be covered with stock equipment and development.

    I'm mostly suggesting these ships with special equipment can be considered to have slightly higher priority than their sisters if you have them early enough. Stats and ship class still more important as a criteria to create a priority list.
    I suppose so. I'd rate Souryuu and Hiryuu as better to upgrade since they're also generally useful aside from their equipment. From your list, I'd take Haruna, Souryuu/Hiryuu despite high remodel levels, Hiei, and Mikuma as relatively easy to remodel. Fusou-class requires a blueprint and newer players got better things to spend them on.
    @Leyana
    True, it's negligible, but as a matter of personal experience I try to leave as little as possible in the hands of RNG. Even with standard 35.6cms on my Kongous, they are only moderately effective at hitting things when I stick them in combined fleet, which annoys the shit out of me so I don't touch 41s or 46s unless I'm using Mutsu or Yamato respectively.


    Isuzu's Anniversary: 1:51am EST, 7/25/2014---Shiratsuyu's Anniversary: 9:57pm EST, 4/12/2015
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  5. #15
    Captain EchIII's Avatar
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    Re: Abridged Event Ship Guide for new players - I.E. "What Ships Should I Get?"

    @kuavera @nwrtz @chronomeister @Yamako @oriscus

    Will make changes accordingly, will also be making a few changes and reverting to some of the old things I had written.

    I used two main sources for my compilation

    Noperative's Reddit Guide
    Shinhwalee's Wiki guide

    Here's a look at my thought processes, I wanted to acknowledge and recognize all the feedback given, so I've been writing this over the past 90 minutes, at which point I'm guessing I've been niinjaposted a few dozen times


    RE: Format


    RE: DDs
    The DDs were especially hard to tier (I spent more time on DDs than on all the other classifications combined), and I had expected this to be by far the worst part of the guide

    • Yuki/Shimakaze, Ayanami and Yuudachi were all top tier, these were pretty obvious and easy, Ayanami's massive attack stat more than justified top-billing
    • Next came Shigure vs Fubuki vs Akatsuki, Shigure's luck vs Fubuki's AA vs Akatsuki having more raw power, clearly Shigure was the most important of the lot with that luck
    • I felt that I had to draw the line somewhere, and that meant Shigure green with the rest yellow, then I just prayed that the text was enough to cover it

    RE: More DDs and why they're such headaches

    • Then come the gaggle of good-DDs, Hatsuharu, Hatsushimo, Murakumo, Verniy, and all that
    • Ushio in particular was a complete headache to give my final recommendation to, she's got Shigure-grade AA and 30 luck, but is otherwise mediocre (as said in the guide), so she's clearly not top tier, but it was that level 60 remodel that won out, obviously experienced players wouldn't use her ahead of any of the L70 remodels, but for new player on a time limit, she'd be alright
    • In the end, I mostly decided to grade most of them as "good to have" and use the text to advise players.
    • Seriously, DD grading is a PITA, aside from the few obvious outliers (i.e. Poi and Co.), the other DDs really need a sliding scale, not a four-point scale



    RE: CLs

    • I originally had Abukuma ranked at Yellow since she's ultimately just an above-average CL with a gimmick, but the feedback (from reddit) was "ABKM is a top tier gamebreaker!!", so she got her green, and just to get my way I graded her accessibility as orange
    • Isuzu lost her planes and got an AACI worse than that of the T91FD that you get
    • Ooyodo is so rare from 1-6, her extreme rarity partially contributed to the high rating of Yuubari
    • Kuma and Nagara were common and good, no issues there
    • The rest of the CLs were pretty easy stuff, train KTKM and Ooi, train Sendai, train Jintsuu


    RE: CAs


    • Maya is clearly indispensable so she was out of the way easily fortunately
    • Because DDs weren't hard enough, now we've got the Myoukou sisters and Choukai, at least there's a consensus that they're the strongest CAs so we've only got to rank the four Myoukous.
    • Between them, Myoukou and Haguro were clearly the more important of the two, but not so much that warranted downgrading the others, so I reflected that with the text annotations
    • Choukai's the strongest CA, but she needs a blueprint, so I decided to reflect that with a lower accessibility rating for the level
    • Prinz is event only, but she gets a mention because of her luck
    • Tone-Class, Tone-Class, Tone-Class, the main worry I had over here was that they lose their CA classification, I wasn't too
    • Mogami's only really there because she's the only CAV that doesn't need the blueprint, which new players won't have
    • Takao and Atago are strong early and then fall behind later, so they get their mentions
    • Furutaka and co are the weakest, but they're common drops


    RE: BBs
    • For a new player, the right BB to use is "whatever you can get", so I kind of had to give every one a green rating
    • The Fusou K2s require L80 blueprints and are late game material, definitely NOT what a new player should be going for this early
    • The Pasta ships are mostly there because there aren't many BBs, so I gave them a mention and marked them black
    • Yamatos are a little joke for the experienced players, originally there was a big kappa face on there
    • Bismarck is awesome and top-tier, but I doubt a developing player would two prints, let alone the time and resources to unlock and craft her, so she got knocked down for that


    RE: CVs
    • New players aren't likely to have Unryuu, and unlike the Pasta ships she's mostly a nice bonus to have
    • Taihou's the only CVB and thus got a mention for that, mediocre as she is, she had to be on there


    RE: CV

    • Junyou, Hiyou, Cheetos, and Ryuujou all made the cut for sure
    • The only issue was whether Ryuujou was worth levelling to 75 as a CVL, since CVLs aren't exactly a high priority when one has Junyou K1
    • Shouhou and Zuihou are better than Ryuujou K1, that's the only reason they're on the list


    The fact that the guide's meant for new players also presented a series of very unique challenges:

    • New players won't have much time to train up a fleet, so weighing up ships that were easy to get vs ships that would have an impact was an issue
    • Accessibility versus Impact had a HUGE role in my recommendations
    • Once again, Ushio was an absolute headache, and the biggest example of accessibility vs use, how do you grade an merely-above-average ship versus better ships that cost 80,000 more experience? (ShimaYukikaze are pretty rare, this isn't like Naka where you've got Kuma and Nagara and easy access to better ships)
    • They'll also have a shortage of blueprints, making accessibility rankings even more important, Choukai was a clear upgrade with no downsides, as was Fusou and ABKM
    • Weighing in the fact that new players have low resources, the cost to train a fleet was another major consideration


    Series of Changes to be made in next version


    • Mass DD regrading
    • Abukuma downgrading
    • Rebalancing of CA and BBs in particular
    • Possibly changing the color scale


    夏 '15 : BBBCCBC | 秋 '15: AABBA | 冬16: AAA | 春 '16: AAAAAAC
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  6. #16
    Vice-Admiral oriscus's Avatar
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    Re: Abridged Event Ship Guide for new players - I.E. "What Ships Should I Get?"

    @EchIII
    I wouldn't really bother weighing AA stat for DDs. AACI for all non-duki DD does not really do much of anything on an event map.
    User blog:Homuhomu123/Trigger Rates & Effectiveness of Anti-Air Cut-In (AACI) - Kancolle Wiki - Wikia
    Kagerou outperformed Ushio k2 on the same API, and both were shit next to 'duki. Even giving a DD the best available AACI still does not provide a good air defence. It is still a very good loadout.

    I would honestly rate Bismarck as the single most important blueprint ship in the game right now. Even at 2 blueprints. No other ship provides the power and flexibility. She's the closest to a gamebreaker this game has. That said, two blueprints, stupid quest chain, and LSC make her not really a good choice for new players to chase.

    As for Ushio in general, the best way to evaluate her is next to other non-k2 DD. And that's where here importance is really revealed. She's basically a Yuugumo with a level 60 kai.

    She is still Ushio, so there is that if you are into that kind of thing.



    And Taihou isn't the only CVB in the game. She's the best CVB in the game. Not that new players should be aiming for Shoukaku k2A. That's definitely a longer term goal if you for some reason prefer her k2A over her k2.



  7. #17
    Moderator Leyana's Avatar
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    Re: Abridged Event Ship Guide for new players - I.E. "What Ships Should I Get?"

    @mumei-chan Isuzu's AACI was tested to shoot down 3 planes. Worse than a 2x HA setup.



  8. #18
    Rear-Admiral nobununga's Avatar
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    Re: Abridged Event Ship Guide for new players - I.E. "What Ships Should I Get?"

    @EchIII

    In general there's three tiers of DD. The ones with a "good" K2/Yukikaze/Shimakaze, the ones with an "ok" K2, and everyone else. There's technically enough "good" DD to go around that you can stick to that lot. Statistically speaking, you should always be prioritising a ship of a higher tier. Outside of the Akizuki-class, no DD provides any particular unique gimmick, so it all comes down to numbers, though some do come with some useful equips.

    However Ushio particularly and, to a lesser extent, Hatsuharu are pain to grade, so much so that IMO, I'd consider taking them out of the grading scale completely, simply because the entire scale makes so much more sense when you do. On paper, they're probably near the bottom of the second category (barring maybe the Mutsuki class K2s). However, the reason is that they stand out as a "stats don't mean everything" perspective is that they're situational to two things which fluctuate heavily between each TTK's experience: time til the next event, and whether they have Yukikaze/Shimakaze.

    The reason is that their value fluctuates according to time before next event is because of their remodel levels. If you are 2 weeks before the event and without access/resources to run safe grinding spots, Ushio and Hatsuharu are a godsend, assuming you have Yuudachi and Shigure already. If you have longer you really should be aiming for the higher level remodels, like Fubuki/Ayanami/Hatsushimo.

    The other variable is simple - If you have Shimakaze and Yukikaze, you are better off training them instead.
    @oriscus:

    If you're lacking rare DDs, almost any improvement ends up looking good. Ushio K2's luck isn't too shabby either. And like you said, she's Ushio.




    Wedding anniversary - Unryuu: 13/11/2016, Yuudachi: 03/12/2016, Shigure: 28/12/2016, Shouhou: 13/01/2017, Fusou: 14/01/17, Yamashiro: 14/01/17, Atago: 14/01/17, Jun'you: 14/01/17, Bismarck: 29/01/17, Ayanami: 31/01/17, Jintsuu: 01/02/17, Mutsu: 04/03/17, Ashigara: 24/03/17, Kirishima: 29/03/17, Hiyou: 06/04/17, Saratoga: 06/04/17, Musashi: 23/04/17, Takao: 26/04/17

  9. #19
    Vice-Admiral oriscus's Avatar
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    Re: Abridged Event Ship Guide for new players - I.E. "What Ships Should I Get?"

    @nobununga
    I like to think of DD in four categories, but different from the ones you used.

    Double Attack DD
    Cut In DD
    Expedition DD
    Gimmick DD

    Every DD has their place in the first two, and then the last is for 'duki only.

    For double attack you've got: Yuudachi > Ayanami > Shimakaze > Akatsuki, etc.

    For cut in there is: Yukikaze > Shigure > Ayanami > Hatsushimo, etc.

    Expedition goes: Mutsuki > most > those high consumption DD (Shimakaze, Akizuki, Verniy)

    Gimmick goes: Teruzuki > Akizuki

    Now, there is going to be some degree of personal interpretation, and moles can change the cut in line up. But that way you can evaluate DD based on what you want from a DD rather than try to compare apples to oranges with say Shimakaze vs Yukikaze. And, in general, I would recommend having both DA and CI DD ready to go.



  10. #20
    Captain EchIII's Avatar
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    Re: Abridged Event Ship Guide for new players - I.E. "What Ships Should I Get?"

    @mumei-chan

    Isuzu's AACI is so bad, it's literally worse than default, it needs a HA, AA gun, and air radar to shoot down 3 planes.

    For reference, I could have literally anybody else run a HA, an air radar, and an AAFD to shoot down the same 3 planes and be just as useless. The difference is that Isuzu running a HAFD + Air Radar + AA gun shoots down the same 3 planes, while other ships will shoot down 4.
    @nobununga

    The whole Ushio vs Yuugumo thing ran into the fact that a new player will not be getting Yuugumo anytime soon; Ushio's basically Naka-common, Yuugumo is so rare that a new player would probably be wondering what that ship he just got was, if they get it yuugumo at all (since she's uncraftable). Ushio's got 30 luck too, which is a marginal bonus over Yuugumo.

    The real challenge (which I discussed below) was really budgeting, before recommending an L70 remodel over a L60, I had to justify why I'd spend 85k experience on a stronger DD instead of any other ship, and in the end, I found myself having trouble justifying the spending, as good as the L70s were.

    My L70 Myoukou would pay for herself many times over very quickly, but my L70 Ayanami would take a long time to show dividends.
    @oriscus

    The guide being written for a new player added a HUGE layer of complexity to it, I'd love to tell them "Train your ShiguPoi to 60/55 and then focus on Yuki/Shimakaze" which would offer the best chances, I'm writing in the context that most new players will almost certainly not have Yukikaze or Shimakaze because of their rarity, at which point I'm stuck with two options

    1. Invest the extra 85k XP into training Ayanami for a superior DD
    2. Go for the early K2 with Ushio and spend the rest of my time training more important ship classes

    It was probably the biggest decision, but I went with option 2 there because new players tend to be resource-poor. That 85k experience could have gone towards pushing KTKM or Ooi two-thirds of the way to Level 50. For the price of two L70s, I could train three L60s, I had a lot of trouble satisfying the opportunity cost of training them up to 70.

    The problem I mostly had with the guide was that it's a bit like trying to cook the best possible dinner under $10, in an ideal world with unlimited resources and money of course the Yamato Hotel with Bismarck and Sushi and all those have the best possible offerings (Bismarck in particular), but writing this guide was a game of keeping the budget down too, and unfortunately that meant deciding which of the handicaps we could accept.


    夏 '15 : BBBCCBC | 秋 '15: AABBA | 冬16: AAA | 春 '16: AAAAAAC
    http://i.imgur.com/ZUPC2wm.png
    https://www.senka.me/player/20025918

 

 

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