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  1. #171
    Admiral illyrin's Avatar
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    May 2014
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    I honestly don't know if Kabineri is a dedicated anime story or if it is based on a manga/LN (mostly because effort is hard). However, I have the strong impression that Kabineri was a manga or an LN before becoming an anime. Regardless, I thought Kabineri was okay, but nothing particularly memorable.

    I also have a strong feeling that Kabineri basically wanted to avoid the biggest problem of Attack on Titan: Glacial story advancement where they spend half of every episode recapping what happened last episode and as a result, even after two seasons, AoT's story never really went much of anywhere, nothing was resolved, and the anime is now over.

    So they tried to condense a lot into a single cour (12 episodes) to create a story with a clear beginning, a climax, and some sort of resolution. Bad story flow and adaptation issues are pretty normal for shows and movies - Western or Eastern - and Kabineri I felt was pretty par for the course. There was a lot of cuts made to the story for the sake of time and many of them seemed pretty last-minute to fit things in as they realized they were over time (or maybe over budget).

    Kabineri, like a lot of anime, has huge "logic" holes in the plot and so on because anime is typically "scene-driven" instead of "story-driven" - the universe doesn't need to make sense as long as this or that scene is cool. (Yeah, it's a fancy way of saying it's sloppy - Japanese are plenty capable of telling coherent stories in their media, but it's lacking in anime).

    All this happens a lot, and while annoying to us westerners or the Japanese who have no interest in actually reading the LNs / manga, for the most part, this is okay for the companies funding this stuff because anime versions are basically a big, long commercial to drive sales of the LNs and/or manga. I sense that pretty much everyone except for the companies funding this stuff are pretty unhappy with the situation. The studios hate it because they're basically forced to do endless iterations of "safe" stories instead of the stuff they might find more interesting if they want to stay in business. The authors hate it because their Great-the-Nth Iteration of Infinite Stratos or LN about kids in a magical high school gets butchered even beyond the original mediocre LN material. Consumers hate it because we keep seeing a bunch of the same show slightly different characters every season.

    tl;dr - Kabineri was visually pretty, but a hack job story-wise.

    Last edited by illyrin; 07-11-2016 at 02:23 AM.

  2. #172
    Moderator Leyana's Avatar
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    Apr 2014
    4874 Post(s)
    @illyrin It's anime only.

    I also want to know what these holes everyone is talking about are. What part of the universe did not make sense?

  3. #173
    Vice-Admiral Mobius's Avatar
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    Aug 2015
    1142 Post(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Leyana View Post
    @Mobius They could've done a better job characterising Biba's motivations but Kabaneri was otherwise a pretty solid action show. Nothing complicated, just a bunch of characters killing zombies and trying to get to safety. Then towards the end, trying to stop the madman from destroying the world.

    Notice how Biba is a Kabane as well. Notice how he commands absolute loyalty from all his troops no matter how brutal he gets. This paints a picture of a great commander, one that the Shogun view as a threat to his power. Also from the Shogun allowing him to go on his little sojourn and then stopping supplies, I extrapolate that Biba also had... inconvenient ideals. So now he's back, he's damaged, and he's mad. Seeing the men he commanded being turned into zombies along with almost turning into one himself would break a man. Though I'd have liked to see Biba reaching that breaking point in a flashback, you can see why he's angry with the world and just doesn't give a fuck anymore.

    What other plotholes did you see?

    As to characters acting like idiots, it's called having empathy and not being a murderous psychopath. It's a staple of heroes everywhere and although it can get motherfucking annoying at times, most heroes have not played enough video games to have the first instinct be 'stab the motherfucker'.
    Man, where do I even start?

    First, your point about Biba's following being proof of him being a great commander would be a valid one... If it was in real life. However, this is a work of fiction. The writers could literally have made him dance the Cancan naked with an animal tail buttplug and still have everyone riding his dick while screaming "Sugoi Biba-sama-dono!" if the writers so desired. In fact, the show failed hard to explain why he has such a following. Sure, he fights off a couple of waves at a station... But he then proceed to murder absolutely everyone (including children) in the next one. Even if you feel admiration for him after seeing him fight off the Kabane, it would be one short honeymoon. Not only that, but he also demonstrably doesn't give a flying fuck about the people under his orders: He sacrifices three Kabaneris and doesn't bat an eyelid when the second one (the blonde woman) goes on a rampage against his men. Why the fuck would you even follow that guy?

    As for the plotholes... Man there's so much.
    • Zombie laser and zombie telekinesis with absolutely no explanation would be fine in a show like One-Punch Man, but in a show that takes itself seriously it's just shit.
    • As I mentionned above, he clearly doesn't give a fuck about the people under his order even though they're only so many of them (Kabaneris in particular, but even men experienced against Kabanes aren't that numerous), meaning that at one point or another he would run out of forces to fight with.
    • As @firemagnet mentionned earlier, the destruction of the stations would also mean the destruction of the ability to resupply food. Good luck fighting a war with soldiers dying of starvation.
    • Who's maintaining the rail network, especially with Biba going on a rampage against stations?
    • Why would you join a man who's actively murdering thousands of innocents and destroying humanity's last chances at survival?
    • What is Biba's end goals? At first it seems like he just wanted revenge for his daddy issues (which is a terrible way to justifiy the genocide he's committing), but apparently that's not the case
    • After the fight against the first fused colony, the protag's train (can't remember the name right now) loses a train car. What was in it? Apparently nothing important since it never has any impact and is never even mentionned. Then why have it? You're only burning through more coal and reducing your acceleration, which might come in handy given the world they're in.
    • Naruto guy cutting a 30cm thick steel cable capable of holding a steel bridge probably as heavy as a WWII light cruiser with a fucking dagger
    • How can Ikoma fire his gun without a hand?
    • How did Kurusu (or whatever his name is) and the scientist survive the fall?
    • The whole dagger thing with his father had so many requirements in order for his plan to work it's not even funny, the biggest of them all being his father being the first one to touch the dagger.
    • Why did Ikoma inject himself with the black blood before reaching the station, knowing full well he was on a time limit?
    • Why the fuck did Biba save Ikoma by giving him white blood?

    And I could go on for a lot longer if I cared.

    As for the whole acting like idiot/empathy... Biba and his followers are literally the least empathetic people in the entire show, yet a lot of them act like fucking cretins, as I already highlighted multiple times above. But the worst offenders is Mumei. She literally see Biba commit outright genocide of an entire stations and knows for a fact that Biba lied and used her to achieve his objective, and yet she still has that fucking brocon the next episode. She doesn't even fucking realize that Biba is the one who is the source of all her suffering, because he was the one who caused the Kabane outbreak at her station, which killed her mother.
    There's also Ikoma turning into a screaming idiot. He was never really bright, but I really liked how he opened the path for the train out of spite instead of an heroic desire in the first episode. Toward the end of the show, he just got really dumb. Like, he just let himself get overpowered by the blonde dude who just hit him with a fucking baton. Like I'm sure he's experienced fighting against Kabane, but he doesn't even do anything special. Mumei also has the same problem against this guy. And guess what? The instant they actually try to fight back, the dude get wrecked.

    Also, this shit:

    Aaaaww, the poor little genocidal assholes who had no problem commiting wholesale slaughter of innocent people (including executing a fucking child without batting an eyelid) and systematically abused the people from our train have a boo-boo to their feeling, let's take them in! It's not like they could possibly betray us in the future or anything!

    I'm sure I could list a lot more thing if I cared enough about the show to go back and check the episodes, but I really don't.

    Last edited by Mobius; 07-11-2016 at 05:19 AM.

    Nagato 2015-03-22 / Mutsu 2015-03-22 / Hiei 2015-04-18 / Ooi 2015-05-30 / Musashi 2016-03-13 / Richelieu 2017-11-11 / Tatsuta 2018-01-18

  4. #174
    Moderator Leyana's Avatar
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    Apr 2014
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    @Mobius You can tell they all hate the government because they were left to die. They follow Biba to the death because there's the implication that it was his command that got them out of being left to die and that they would give their lives to him now just to see the government that abandoned them burn to the ground. It's that nihilistic viewpoint that you can see play out. Only towards the end, when he received orders from his lord did they decide to play nice to live.

    The whole thing about Biba and his troops is their irrational hatred towards the government and everyone that supports them. They hate the people comfortable behind their walls as they went out to be left to die against the kabane. They clearly do not care one bit about the country or its people anymore. For reference see Biba's comment about "what he should destroy next" at the end. That is his end goal. He want's to see Japan burn. I attribute that to the unseen breakdown he would have had when he became kabaneri.

    The train car that was lost, I assume contained more refugees. Why nothing was mentioned, well they already had an entire episode where they stopped to honour the dead. Do we really need another episode like that to kill the pacing again?

    The rest of the points can just be explained by Rule or Cool or drama.

    As for Biba saving the MC, he wanted the MC to get the fuck up and start round 2 of their brawl. Biba wasn't exactly thinking straight anymore. I mean, he did just get his arm blown off.

    Mumei just has a pretty serious case of Stockholm syndrome.

    Trying to kill a human is different than killing mindless zombies. The kabane aren't actually capable of proper combat, despite that one off that fought the samurai.

    Also that end is less jarring when you think about what just happened. The main stronghold is now burning. You have a bunch of combat veterans that have offered to show you a way out and are not a threat at the moment. You have a train full of non combatants. Ayame is right in that they could've easily just murdered them all and took the train. But they decided not to, that's a pretty fucking big sign that things have changed. They can be useful in surviving the clusterfuck that their world has now become.

    I really think that most of these are overblown and most are thinking too much. The show has some failings at times but it is still a solid and enjoyable action show. It has good pacing and keeps the action up all the way to the end. I quite enjoyed the ride.

  5. #175
    Rear-Admiral firemagnet's Avatar
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    Aug 2014
    336 Post(s)

    TL;DR version: it only makes sense if you think about it from an in-universe perspective where there is no empathy and the only standing rule is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and I'll do anything in order to survive."

  6. #176
    Vice-Admiral LostLogia4's Avatar
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    Feb 2015
    749 Post(s)
    Spoiler for Macross Delta
    [+] Spoiler


    ...seems like they REALLY did it. But I thought it was banned under intergalactic treaties?

    Lacrima Memoria: Graveyard of the Fleet Maidens (May Poi-chan rest in peace)
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