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  1. #81
    Rear-Admiral firemagnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goesto11 View Post
    @firemagnet: I'll give the plate shifting as a reason for the flooding a pass. At least they gave SOME explanation for all the flooding. As for the rest of the world, well, I don't think those details will be given. Besides, given that the plot threat here is internal rather than external, probably not worth bogging down with exposition. The issue I'm having is a lot of what's been mentioned - why/how WWII ships?

    Good point about the hull numbers, but DDG =/= DD. For example.USS Spruance is DD-963 whereas Arleigh Burke is DDG-51. Still, Harekaze's hull number is pretty high which leads me to suspect that these ships are not the WWII versions, but purposefully built new versions which makes no sense on a number of levels - including why isn't the entire ship modernized (even excluding weaponry) beyond RADAR? Voice tubes? Really?

    Again, only one episode, but I strongly suspect viewers will need a good deal of suspension of disbelief/don't think about things. Just hope the fights are good and they get the ship/military details right.
    One part of it may be due to scarcity of resources. I remember reading something along the lines that if we were to lose access to rare-earth minerals, military technology would basically be operating on 1960s levels.

    The in house reason is, of course, WWII. However, one may also consider the USS Eagle, a sailing ship with the US Coast guard, upon which Coast Guard cadets are required to train:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCGC_Eagle_(WIX-327)

    However, it is also clear that the Yokosuka area isn't the only area to boast a defense fleet. Keep in mind that the Yamato-Class seen at the beginning of episode 1 had the hull number K117. It is altogether likely that the system functions as a mixed coast-guard, military academy, and naval section all in one, using vessels that can be easily mass-manufactured, upgraded with a modicum of modern technology, and then applied to a range of tasks. That they're based on existing blueprints probably helps immensely.

    edit: confirmed:

    TV tropes takes info from the website and lists the mass-production of those ships as necessitated by the naval conditions arising from the environmental catastrophe, due to the position of the new maritime cities. So basically JROTC with gender segregation, and not a small amount of propaganda to make such training and volunteer outfits palatable and prized by young women.

    Oh, and:

    Apparently the continental submergence began before WWII, as apparently the Musashi seen under the hull number K117 is the original
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ighSchoolFleet.

    Also:

    The production team has many of the staff from Girls und Panzer working on it.

    So yes: Madchen und schlachtschiff.


    Last edited by firemagnet; 04-15-2016 at 04:18 AM.

  2. #82
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @firemagnet: That's some new information for me. So TV tropes got all this info from the anime official website (if I understand you correctly)?

    Thanks for the link of the link. It seems from TV tropes it's conjecture re WWII (didn't happen or different enough result), but not entirely certain since we don't have firm dates here. Given the info, I'm thinking that these are the "real" WWII ships vs. a newly built copies. Yamato and Musashi types are not "easily mass- manufactured". Takes years and a crap ton of resources. Also, "original versions" makes more sense given the limited upgrades. If building from scratch, you'd modernize more from the start - certainly no need to keep voice tubes vs. modern intercom.

    So a bit more of the world-building puzzle filed out, but still no definitive answers. Frankly, putting SOME world-building on the website is fine, but IMO anime website shouldn't be used in place of world-building in the actual anime. Again, only Ep. 01 so too early to make any definitive judgements.


    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  3. #83
    Rear-Admiral firemagnet's Avatar
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    @goesto11

    Just watched episode 2.

    It is explicitly stated in the beginning of the episode (by Munetani's mother) that an excess of methane hydrate mining after the Russo-Japanese war caused landmass submergence in Japan. To this end, large-city ships were constructed to house the affected populations, which were eventually turned into floating urban platforms. Further, Japan never participated in World War I or World War II, and to prevent this, ships originally intended for the military were handed over to the Blue Mermaids, a newly formed civil coast guard, all of which would be crewed by women as "proof of lack of hostile intent."

    Other nations have apparently survived, as the panzerschiff (armored cruiser) Graf Spee is explicitly listed as a German exchange student ship.

    From this, we can conclude that the ships are indeed the originals, and that therefore WWII never happened; Graf Spee, third and last of the Deutschland class of heavy cruisers, was sunk in 1939. Whether this means the political situation is the same is another matter entirely: Graf Spee was laid down in 1932 for the kreigsmarine, which would most likely not be the case had Germany not lost WWI. Nor, from the maps shown on the data slate, has Germany appeared to have lost any territory to submergence. Indeed, Graf Spee's ensign, as shown on its funnel, lists it as being owned by Wilhelmshaven Naval Academy, with the hull number W207. For that matter, the Graf Spee isn't flying any naval ensigns either. We can thus either assume that the NSDAP either never rose to power (leaving the interwar Wiemar Republic to heal itself), or that Germany somehow lost WWII with the majority of its fleet somehow intact.

    I suspect, however, that these answers will come with the third episode.

    Overall, however, the characterization is rather weak, especially when compared to Girls Und Panzer, considering that they share many of the same production staff. Otherwise, the plot thickens: Clearly, whatever is going on is some sort of conspiracy originating with the Sarushima, as her crew was fully present with at best minor damage, yet by episode 2, the ship is listed as sunk, with the captain being its only survivor.

    I'm going to state it outright: I think they're pulling a page from 2012's Battleship movie, and going along the lines of an alien conspiracy.


    Last edited by firemagnet; 04-16-2016 at 06:53 PM.

  4. #84
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @firemagnet: Just watched Ep. 02, and sorry, but to me this show is kind of a mess. The exposition did help, but just more questions are raised. NO planes? Really? I guess the US is under water/completely gone, but still other country thought of the idea? Really? As for what happened with WWI/WWII - who knows? Japan might not have participated in either, but they sure did build a lot of WWII era warships. The "oh, but only women are crewing the boats" is kind of a wonky (and sexist) as a pacifist explanation if you ask me.

    To me this show just has such a odd and at times jarring mix of tech. Modern looking cities, Independence class ship, a modern tablet, modern RADAR, and that futuristic looking boat the FL goes and rescues that one girl with, etc., but like 99% of the ships are all WWII era because... IDK? The "great flooding" occurred BEFORE all these WWII ere ships were built. They have a bunch of other modern stuff, so why not a more modern navy? Even the tech they have is used inconstantly. WHY is there a girl in the "crow's nest" when you have modern RADAR? Heck, she's the one who spots Graf Spee. WTF is the RADAR operator doing?

    What happened with Sarushima sinking is a mystery to me (which hopefully will get explained), but it goes beyond that. The crew survived, yet they didn't talk to any of them besides waiting for Captain Sensei to regain consciousness? I mean, surely SOME knew that Sarushima fired upon the Harekaze before getting hit with a dummy torp. Is the entire Sarushima crew in on the scam? LOL, maybe you're right and it's aliens behind all of it.

    Another issue I have is that too much feels so scripted. ONE depth charge left, and NO torps because...? They didn't get hit - right? So what happened? DC and torps just fell into the sea? Only had one dummy torp on board? The latter clearly is done for "tension/drama" with the Graf Spee fight which ended far too easily with Harekaze firing a whole two shells and making an incredibly difficult hit. Graf Spee on the other hand evidently went to Stormtrooper school of marksmanship. Wasn't a good battle from my end.

    So IDK here. On paper this show is totally fits my tastes (big GuP fan, like SW, etc.), but yeesh is it making things hard for me. On top of the above, IMO the characters still have a surprising lack of "screen presence", and while only Ep. 02., as you say GuP did it better. I'd say the same for SW, and probably even KanColle anime at this point. I can't say I really like any of the cast. Comedy isn't working for me either, and to be honest the "secretary" girl's fantasies are annoying rather than funny.

    Still in for now. Hopefully Ep. 03 will be an improvement.


    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  5. #85
    Rear-Admiral firemagnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goesto11 View Post
    @firemagnet: Just watched Ep. 02, and sorry, but to me this show is kind of a mess. The exposition did help, but just more questions are raised. NO planes? Really? I guess the US is under water/completely gone, but still other country thought of the idea? Really? As for what happened with WWI/WWII - who knows? Japan might not have participated in either, but they sure did build a lot of WWII era warships. The "oh, but only women are crewing the boats" is kind of a wonky (and sexist) as a pacifist explanation if you ask me.

    To me this show just has such a odd and at times jarring mix of tech. Modern looking cities, Independence class ship, a modern tablet, modern RADAR, and that futuristic looking boat the FL goes and rescues that one girl with, etc., but like 99% of the ships are all WWII era because... IDK? The "great flooding" occurred BEFORE all these WWII ere ships were built. They have a bunch of other modern stuff, so why not a more modern navy? Even the tech they have is used inconstantly. WHY is there a girl in the "crow's nest" when you have modern RADAR? Heck, she's the one who spots Graf Spee. WTF is the RADAR operator doing?

    What happened with Sarushima sinking is a mystery to me (which hopefully will get explained), but it goes beyond that. The crew survived, yet they didn't talk to any of them besides waiting for Captain Sensei to regain consciousness? I mean, surely SOME knew that Sarushima fired upon the Harekaze before getting hit with a dummy torp. Is the entire Sarushima crew in on the scam? LOL, maybe you're right and it's aliens behind all of it.

    Another issue I have is that too much feels so scripted. ONE depth charge left, and NO torps because...? They didn't get hit - right? So what happened? DC and torps just fell into the sea? Only had one dummy torp on board? The latter clearly is done for "tension/drama" with the Graf Spee fight which ended far too easily with Harekaze firing a whole two shells and making an incredibly difficult hit. Graf Spee on the other hand evidently went to Stormtrooper school of marksmanship. Wasn't a good battle from my end.

    So IDK here. On paper this show is totally fits my tastes (big GuP fan, like SW, etc.), but yeesh is it making things hard for me. On top of the above, IMO the characters still have a surprising lack of "screen presence", and while only Ep. 02., as you say GuP did it better. I'd say the same for SW, and probably even KanColle anime at this point. I can't say I really like any of the cast. Comedy isn't working for me either, and to be honest the "secretary" girl's fantasies are annoying rather than funny.

    Still in for now. Hopefully Ep. 03 will be an improvement.
    if you remember, GuP had the same teething problems, but otherwise i agree: this show is extremely weak, much more so than GuP which very quickly established its setting and place.

    the episode was really "meh," for me as well. The only explanation for the Depth Charges was that the hit to the aft of the ship. In reality, a hit to the depth charges would have blown the keel off of the ship and sunk it, but "muh plot armor." Ditto with the crew of the Graf Spee very quickly getting straddling shots on the Harekaze, just like in GuP ep 3, where Miho's Panzer D, a tank with a maximum of 30mm of armor, miraculously survives a hit to the rear from a SPG whose gun could penetrate at least 4 times that much armor.

    It's all plot armor, with the arc of the episodes at this point being the gathering of characters and putting flesh on the series vis a vis basic background.

    vis a vis the submergence, we are given no clear indicator as to how the submergence affected other nations. The mystery of the Musashi has yet to be solved, for instance, but what should be gleaned is that any of the nations which survived (and are major WWII combatants), have very large surface navies.

    More generally, however, the combat can generally be explained--from the harekaze, anyway--by the fact that Akemi is generally trying to avoid combat, and appears only to take minimal action when absolutely necessary to defend the crew. The theme, if you will, is putting the "defense" in "Maritime defense force."


    as to the question of RADAR: 1, they state that their GPS is turned off to avoid their being tracked by that method, and 2, moreover those radars are most likely civil radars, which may well have a shorter range. Keep in mind, further, that 3, the crew are also complete rookies; no one, not even the captain, was paying attention. Only the girl up in the crow's nest was actually doing her job WRT navigation and warning.


    Last edited by firemagnet; 04-17-2016 at 04:17 AM.

  6. #86
    Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @firemagnet: Well, GuP started relatively slow, but much better than this show IMO. By Ep. 03, I was hooked, but I liked GuP Ep. 02. Some good comedy moments there IMO.

    Agree, about the DC, and yeah, if those exploded, the damage would be a lot worse (think Kisaragi at Wake Island). Still, 1 DC and no torps is pushing it IMO. I get that Harekaze is trying to be defensive. Doesn't help their "mutiny" defense to go killing people (though Graf Spee sure seemed to be trying to kill that one girl). I also get the plot armor as well, but for this show it seems more egregious than some others. The lack of anything offsetting for me doesn't help either.

    As for RADAR, why would there be civil RADAR on a military ship? I get the whole "it's a peace time force - look all female crew", but then again these are warships right up to Yamato-class. Even coast guard ships have decent RADAR - something that works further than eye-sight range. Actually, there's probably some good "civil" RADAR if you can afford it. I also got the turning off the "GPS", though wait a minute. Is it some tracking device or actual GPS, because no planes, but GPS (i.e. satellites)!? How does that work? Anyway, my point was more towards communication. Send a message like "Hey, we just defended ourselves. No "mutiny!" and such. Even if they turned of tracking, why not do that AFTER sending some message explaining their side of the story? Obviously the whole thing is to further the plot, but the issue is that it feels too much just for that.

    Lastly, I think the show does a bad job with the "Oh, but they are rookies". Goofballs, yes, but rookies? Not really. For HS age characters supposedly just starting to train, they are surprisingly competent. Personality quirks aside, they do everything well - from engine and other repairs, expert evasive maneuvers/helmsmanship, making incredibly difficult gun shots in only two attempts, etc. Even the curry is fantastic. Where/when did they get all this knowledge & training? One hell of a middle-school. GuP's rookies actually acted like that initially. Here it's very much lip-service.


    Last edited by goesto11; 04-17-2016 at 04:47 AM.
    Thanks to Arkayda for the signature.


  7. #87
    Rear-Admiral firemagnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goesto11 View Post
    @firemagnet: Well, GuP started relatively slow, but much better than this show IMO. By Ep. 03, I was hooked, but I liked GuP Ep. 02. Some good comedy moments there IMO.

    Agree, about the DC, and yeah, if those exploded, the damage would be a lot worse (think Kisaragi at Wake Island). Still, 1 DC and no torps is pushing it IMO. I get that Harekaze is trying to be defensive. Doesn't help their "mutiny" defense to go killing people (though Graf Spee sure seemed to be trying to kill that one girl). I also get the plot armor as well, but for this show it seems more egregious than some others. The lack of anything offsetting for me doesn't help either.

    As for RADAR, why would there be civil RADAR on a military ship? I get the whole "it's a peace time force - look all female crew", but then again these are warships right up to Yamato-class. Even coast guard ships have decent RADAR - something that works further than eye-sight range. Actually, there's probably some good "civil" RADAR if you can afford it. I also got the turning off the "GPS", though wait a minute. Is it some tracking device or actual GPS, because no planes, but GPS (i.e. satellites)!? How does that work? Anyway, my point was more towards communication. Send a message like "Hey, we just defended ourselves. No "mutiny!" and such. Even if they turned of tracking, why not do that AFTER sending some message explaining their side of the story? Obviously the whole thing is to further the plot, but the issue is that it feels too much just for that.

    Lastly, I think the show does a bad job with the "Oh, but they are rookies". Goofballs, yes, but rookies? Not really. For HS age characters supposedly just starting to train, they are surprisingly competent. Personality quirks aside, they do everything well - from engine and other repairs, expert evasive maneuvers/helmsmanship, making incredibly difficult gun shots in only two attempts, etc. Even the curry is fantastic. Where/when did they get all this knowledge & training? One hell of a middle-school. GuP's rookies actually acted like that initially. Here it's very much lip-service.
    less goofballs and, at least on the part of the bridge crew, almost dangerously incompetent. At least that's the way I see it. All of the above that you responded to was my speculation based upon what i've seen. Whatever radar they have, it's certainly not linked to the guns. Impressive autoloader though.

    As for the torpedoes, do they have to use them? We know the ship has them, after all such destroyers typically came with a large load (upwards of 16) such weapons.

    As for aircraft, I missed this, but:

    Kouki:[looking at the birds flying by] At times like this, I wish we could fly back to school like that. [turning to Mashiro] I wonder if you can make a flying ship without hydrogen or helium?'''Mashiro [sighs] Only in your imagination. Ridiculous.


    World War 1 and World War II apparently never happened. Thus tanks (the machinegun) and powered heavier than air flight (military scouting) don't exist. This also explains the lack of aircraft carriers. Which also explains Germany's situation handily: the wiemar crisis never happened.

    As for GPS: one can have rockets without having aircraft, however GPS is my assumption, since they simply call it a "navigational position tracking system."

    That aside, lack of rocketry may well be why WWII-vintage ships are in common service: without the knowledge of powered flight, the ability to go from using shells and torpedoes to wire-guided rockets with a 12 nautical mile range (1950s) to guided rockets with a several hundred nautical mile range, becomes impractical, if not impossible.

    the accusation of mutiny also becomes that much more serious, since there's no ability to track said warship or intercept it easily, and aside from shore defense batteries the crew of the Harekaze can go where they will almost without fear of swift retaliation.

    However, one will note that Harakaze still mounts its 4 anti-aircraft autocannons as featured on the Kagero class, and its 127mm gun mounts are all dual-purpose. This is implausible and shoddy given that the worst the Harakaze might have to face would be scouting blimps. At worst, they might have pulled a kirov saga and started arming blimps with recoilless rifles and self-sealing gas-bags, but that's still no severe threat to even a DD.




    Last edited by firemagnet; 04-17-2016 at 06:24 AM.

  8. #88
    Captain Kranesh's Avatar
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    Honestly, I'm enjoying Haifuri but I think it's trying way too hard to become something better than GuP. I'm hooked to the mistery already and I want to know what the hell is going on aboard the rest of the ships! Seriously I hope they don't pull out some crap of alien invasion or hipnotism as a cause or I will loose my shit... for me this show is a mix between Yuuki Yuuna is a Hero and GuP, sure I bet we will see dark scenes in the future but everything will be shits and giggles by the end of the day...

    One of the theories that I have it's that perhaps the crew of the Saurshima got replaced or taking as hostages by another faction, because in the first episode at the island they were supossed to meet you can see a group of submarines anchored there as well which is really odd because if it was a surface excersice then why those submarines were creeping out there?

    Also, it's a shame if we wont see carriers or planes... there goes my hype for an epic AA battle episode. But as I said, pretty decent show and I'm sure the plot will only get deeper and darker from this point... I'm also expecting an incredible deus ex machina at any point now because that's what's gonna happen anyways, the question is when.




  9. #89
    Commander Vanils's Avatar
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    So far my favorite this season
    [+] Spoiler



  10. #90
    Vice-Admiral CaioDuilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanils View Post
    So far my favorite this season
    [+] Spoiler
    I loved her reactions to the Harbringer. *slam*



    Other names: ADMSeraphes/Petrarch/ChairmanAl ​KC Fanfic: Operation Eclipse
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