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  1. #1
    Kantai Analyst 211303's Avatar
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    An overview on KC's aa defense system (to be continued)

    http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm30040681

    As requested @KotoNano, I repost this video about AA defense in KC I posted earlier in GCT. Since Autumn, there is a trend among Japanese players to put more attention on AA defense, and this video is one of the reason of such boom. With the introduction of 6-5, Autumn E4, and the extra slots, I believe it becomes important to understand how the AA system actually works, and adjust our equipments and upgrade plans accordingly.

    I originally plan to translate the video. However, since the video is full of data (and I lack the video editing skill), I choose to summarize what it says, and then include actual battle logs of fleets that utilize the AA system. People who understand Japanese, please refer to the video itself. The uploader also makes some case studies on Autumn E4 with fleets that focus on AA defense.



    An overview of Kancolle's AA system
    This part is a summarized version of the aerial combat phrase. Everything here can be found in wikia and wikiwiki, so please refer to the detailed version in those sites if you have time. I am adopting the terminology used in wikia here to avoid confusion.

    Each aerial combat phrase consists of the following steps:
    Stage 1
    1. Fighter combat
    2. Contact

    Stage 2
    1. Proportional air defense
    2. Fixed air defense and AACI

    Stage 3
    1. The actual bombing run

    Enemy plane will be shot down in both stage 1 and stage 2, and the remaining planes will reach your fleet and perform opening airstrikes. In this article, we will focus on stage 2.

    In stage 2, each enemy bomber slot will select a random ship to defend. The defending ship is not necessary the same as the target of the enemy bomber slot. Stage 2 consists of two parts: proportional air defense and fixed air defense + AACI. Each has a concurrent but independent 50% chance to trigger. Here are the actual equations for the number of planes shot down by each type of defense:

    Proportional air defense= (Adjusted AA/400)*(number of enemy plane)

    Fixed air defense={(Adjusted AA+ Adjusted fleet AA)*AACI multiplier *combined fleet multiplier }/10

    Adjusted AA={Base AA+ ∑ [(Equipment type multiplier*Equipment base AA)+ (√(no. of star)*Equipment’s improvement modifier)]}

    Equipment type multiplier:
    Equipment type multiplier
    High angle gun, Fire director 4
    Machine gun 6
    Radar 3
    Main gun (red), T3 shell, fighter, recon seaplane 0




    Equipment’s improvement modifier:
    Equipment type modifier
    High angle gun 3
    Radar, secondary gun (yellow) 0
    Machine gun 4

    Adjusted fleet AA={Formation modifier*[∑ (all ships) (∑(all slots) (Equipment type fleet AA multiplier*Equipment base AA)+ (√(no. of star)*Fleet AA equipment’s improvement modifier))]}*1.54

    Equipment type fleet AA multiplier:
    Equipment type multiplier
    Main gun (red), secondary gun (yellow), machine gun, fighters, dive bomber, recon seaplane 0.2
    High angle gun, fire director 0.35
    Radar 0.4
    T3 shell 0.6


    Fleet AA equipment’s improvement modifier:
    Equipment type modifier
    High angle gun 3
    Fire director 2
    Radar 1.5
    Machine gun, secondary gun (yellow) 0


    Formation modifier:
    Formation modifier
    Line Ahead, Line Abreast, Echelon 1
    Double line 1.2
    Diamond 1.6

    Combined fleet formation modifier
    2nd, 4th 1
    1st 1.1
    3rd 1.5

    Combined fleet multiplier:
    Main fleet: 0.72
    Second fleet: 0.48


    Seems a bit complex, huh? Well, you don’t really have to memorize all these formula, as there are existing deck builders and tools that can do the calculation for you. This is the one I am using now. I don’t know if there is any English tool available, but plz tell me if there is one.



    Proportional air defense
    Proportional air defense, as its name suggests, shoots down a particular percentage of incoming enemy plane. This means it will be more significant against a large slot (Re class, harbor hime, etc), but less so against small slots (Wo class). To demonstrate how equipment affects proportional air defense, here are the percentage shot down rates of 3 Akizuki kai with different loadouts:

    Stock Akizuki kai: 29%
    Akizuki kai (10cm HAFD*2, T13 radar kai, 25mm triple machine gun (concentrated) : 65%
    Akizuki kai (max 10cm HAFD*2, max T13 radar kai, max 25mm triple machine gun (concentrated)): 74%

    If you refer to the equation of proportional air defense above, you can see that the base AA of a ship only contributes to a very small part of the shot down rate. In terms of the effect of equipment on proportional air defense, machine gun>high angle gun>radar.


    To be continued


    3 out of 0 members found this post helpful.
    Last edited by 211303; 01-17-2017 at 02:36 PM.
    The sexiest bridge ever made.

  2. #2
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    TLDR Version:

    Planes shot down involves two independent phases with independence dice rolls (you can either have both stages succeed in killing planes, neither of them or just one of them)
    Stage 1: 50percent chance of killing a percentage of planes (AA value/400 %),
    Stage 2: 50percent chance 2nd roll kills a fixed number of planes. This is HEAVILY effected by highly modified HA AA Guns and AA cutin. (with gives >1.5x bonus for most AA CI types)

    After all that AA cutin kills another fixed number of planes depending on AA CI Type
    -----------------------
    What to do:
    Modify High Angle guns and use them whenever possible. If you have 3+ MAXED out HA AA Guns with AA cut in you can clean out 36 slot air groups 50% the time when stage 2 triggers.

    If you have too much slots and AA you can stack enough air superiority, and percentage plane kill and AA cut in fixed kills to clean out air groups for another 25% of time, but it usually isn't worth it unless it is 1-6 tier map.

    Get your AA Calculation via http://kancolle-calc.net/deckbuilder.html
    Under the 6th tab with:



    艦名耐久装甲回避ストッパー関連対空
    回避値回避力キラ時中破下限残HP範囲大破率加重値割合撃墜固定撃墜第8類 (+4)カットイン
    あきつ丸改40431826%45%1192015%12330%12.317.2第8類 (+4,x1.4)

    艦隊防空単縦陣複縦陣輪形陣
    固定撃墜+1.2+1.4+1.8
    第8類 (+4,x1.4)+1.7+2.0+2.5

    The top right is ship AA, where the first value is percentage, the 2nd value is fixed.

    The bottom is fleet air defense with is added to fixed AA.

    If AA CI triggers you use the AA CI for fixed shot downs. In this case it is type 8 AA CI where 17 plane + 1 fleet AA planes will be shot down if stage 2 fixed AA triggers with AA CI. After all dice rolls an addition 4 planes will be shot down.


    Last edited by Shin_Getter; 01-12-2017 at 08:40 PM.

  3. #3
    Community Staff Jifaru's Avatar
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    Additional reading:

    http://5-4.blog.jp/archives/1063369809.html

    New upgrade priorities are pretty clear though.
    2 90mm to +max
    3 Akizuki guns to +max if you haven't done so already
    At least 1 25mm triple AC or 25mm concA for use in an expansion slot


    Last edited by Jifaru; 01-12-2017 at 10:50 PM.

  4. #4
    Commander Adraste's Avatar
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    time to ask how Bofors and Pompom`s compare to 25MM triple and 25mm concetrated deployment?



  5. #5
    Vice-Admiral Murrue's Avatar
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    @Adraste unupgraded, Bofors>PomPom>25mm concentrated>25mm triple

    Fully upgraded, it will be 25mm concentrated>25mm triple> Bofors>PomPom for a ship in secondary fleet, until the 2 last ones can be upgraded too

    For main fleet, if you're looking for FP first, it will be the same order, but if you want more AA, 25mm triple 10 stars is still inferior to all others.


    Last edited by Murrue; 01-13-2017 at 03:41 PM.

  6. #6
    Marshal Admiral KotoNano's Avatar
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    I am actually questioning the practicality of BB AACI now, the base cut in fixed shot down is 6, one lower than Akizuki strongest and two lower than Maya's strongest.

    In practice due to how both Main guns and T3 offer no multiplier and both are required for their "higher" AACI, it actually makes it pretty dreadful. Worse than 10cm+FD x2 and air radar on a DD.


    However here's something quite fun. 2x 90mm 2x 25mmCD and 15m duplex on Iowa has a better shotdown % rate than Maya. At the obvious cost of proc rate.



    Edit: for luls. I just gave her 4 maxed out 25mmCD and the 15m duplex.


    If this site is accurate.. this is hilarious if impractical, expensive and unreliable.

    Till nobody pointed out I had maya not maya k2


    Last edited by KotoNano; 01-15-2017 at 08:25 PM.

  7. #7
    Vice-Admiral goesto11's Avatar
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    @211303: Nice work and a good post. It does seem that AA stat isn't as meaningless as it used to be on top of other changes in the game. AACI still is king for AA defense, but fleet AA may be more important/useful these days than one might suspect.

    FYI - there's quite a bit now on KC Wikia (maybe KC Wiki as well) on this which I went through, but not sure if it's 100% up to date/accurate. You may want to give it a look.



  8. #8
    Commander Adraste's Avatar
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    @goesto11 no one cared for Fleet AA until the most efficient 6-5 fleet has you relying on it to reduce the required Fighter Power. Which for me might mean its a bit weak unless multiplied X4 from 4 LBAS strikes



  9. #9
    Community Staff Jifaru's Avatar
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    @goesto11 AACI alone isn't enough, and we've known this for a long time.

    What's important is stacking Fleet Anti-Air, and increasing the proc rate of Stage 2 Surface-Air AA by upgrading Akizuki guns, 90mms, and T14 kais. Emptying large slots is much more possible - and consistent - than before, but of course the same caveat as all equipment-related mechanics applies. Stacking AA comes at an opportunity cost, and you still have to decide whether or not the increased chances of making it to the boss outweighs the damage you lose.



  10. #10
    Commander Adraste's Avatar
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    well, this thread helped me understand KC3kai`s new info... but now for the balancing act...

    Akizuki Gun+Akizuki Gun+Air Radar+Bofors gives me


    while Akizuki Gun+Akizuki Gun+ PomPom+Bofors gives me

    which is better? the first is more likely to trigger AACI,but the second is more likely to empty a Wo or Event Boss... and you only need 1 AACI in the fleet anyway...but 2 Duckies is impracticle outside installations, and even then since combat Daihatsu`s became a thing DD`s can actually matter...



 

 

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